# Rotator cuffs and 3-d axes... entropy I'm looking at you...

#### Urban

##### Savage Mystic
@Gold
Ok, so I'm certain now that I should be doing more for my rotator cuffs, but how much and on what axis? I've heard that there are 4 rotator movements, but thinking about it there must be at least six. Assuming that they're all performed with a ninety degree bend at the elbow there are two (clockwise and counterclockwise rotation) for each axis (x, y, and z). One pair with your arm at your side for the y axis, one pair with your arms out to your side (x axis) and one pair with your arm out in front of you. Do I need to work all of these?

I am by no means qualified to answer, but I have never seen anyone do rotator work on their "Z" axis, and it seems like a fairly awkward motion.

out in front? Think arm wrestling.

Yeah i know what you're saying, ive taken my share of honours math courses and know what a z axis is...im just saying i've never seen someone do it...i suppose on further inspection its not that awkward though

Also, how would you do inward rotation on that axis...lying on your side? mmm i guess you could?

I've seen almsot all of Ian King's videos, and read quite a few of his books...so I'm a King Follower if you will...

Anyways he starts off every upperbody workout with at least 1 set of rotator cuff training, depending on the person and there needs.

Rotator cuff movements are for healthy shoulders right? I so, does anyone have any tips on what I can do? these past few days whenever I lock out my left arm overhead, somewhere in my shoulder it hurts. It is especially apparent if I pull my arm back a little while extended overhead..

gruesome said:

that only shows Urban's y axis...hmmmm

internal/external rotations on a couple plains...thats it

I think if one does a vary of different exercises with different ranges of motions, kettlebells, clubbells, dumbell/barebell overhead work, lockout support work, etc, then one should not need to isolate the RC directly, since it should be strong enough.

But if I was going to do it, I would alternate between a bunch of different exercises hitting different angles. Light weight, high reps, since we dont want to build that muslce bigger, since that will let to more delt problems.

Read some where that Roger Clemons does it that way? but who knows what one reads now a days..

Urban said:
Ok, so I'm certain now that I should be doing more for my rotator cuffs, but how much and on what axis? I've heard that there are 4 rotator movements, but thinking about it there must be at least six. Assuming that they're all performed with a ninety degree bend at the elbow there are two (clockwise and counterclockwise rotation) for each axis (x, y, and z). One pair with your arm at your side for the y axis, one pair with your arms out to your side (x axis) and one pair with your arm out in front of you. Do I need to work all of these?

There are multiple rotator movements and variations that one can perform which affect the rotator complex in more ways than standard movements employed at either the x, y or the z axis. Gruesome

Urban, I neglected to mention that the variations I choose to employ are derivatives of movements performed at the x and y axis.

I read in a few places that one should not do heavy weights while working the rotator cuff.

I've heard that by using heavy weights the tendon will hypertrophy therefore having a greater chance of impingement. Then a lesser degree of inflammation will cause pain. So keep it light as you work them.

The term heavy is relative description to weight

As far as hypertyoprhy, I've read essentially the opposite, usually in a body builder context. Most people not training the rotators because of the inability to see results or achieve any real hypertrophy within the muscles.

Btw.what should you do if your rotator is already injured? Are these exercises only for prophylaxis or also for rehab?

It would depend on the degree of injury. If its a minor injury, as I've had. My most recent attempt at rehab has gotten me stopping all use for a couple weeks, then beginning up with LIGHT rehab as soon as it feels better. Testing tolerance as I go. If something hurts, stop.

i've been doing cuban presses. before i hit my work sets on any upperbody day i do several sets. it seems to help a lot. lately i have been doing the x/y/w thing, but not nearly as seriouslly or often as my cuban presses.
bands would be awesome as well. go light. to asses abilities.

Program

I have a question about the "Reach, Roll and Lift" exercise. "Externally rotate your hand" means, that your thumb moves to side by rotating "down", right? (hard to explain)

you turn your hand from facing the ground, to facing the ceiling, as you move your arm across your body.

gruesome said:
you turn your hand from facing the ground, to facing the ceiling, as you move your arm across your body.

but you can turn your hand the one way or the other. And what do you mean by arm across the body?