Ronda = Brock

bubbleboyjones said:
So you're trying to make a case that Lesnar's 2nd round submission win over Carwin who was 12-0 at the time isn't legitimate?
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Brock looked awful. Kimbo would have taken down Carwin in that 2nd round and finished him and you know it.
 
KOfinger said:
lol that guy got be to trolling... I don't think it gets whiter than Ronda...
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ive actually had people argue with me that canelo isnt white.

this guy isnt white to neckbeard internet racists:
canelo49.jpg
 
Fraser B said:
Brock looked awful. Kimbo would have taken down Carwin in that 2nd round and finished him and you know it.
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If anyone would act like a complete moron like you do right now then you can find an argument for every win ever not being a legit win...

{<jordan}
 
Gluhov said:
ive actually had people argue with me that canelo isnt white.

this guy isnt white to neckbeard internet racists:
canelo49.jpg
Click to expand...

lol I'm from sweden, a nordic country and canelo is whiter than me...
 
Fraser B said:
Brock looked awful. Kimbo would have taken down Carwin in that 2nd round and finished him and you know it.
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No he wouldn't. Kimbo wouldn't even have made it to the second.

Listen I get the Brock hate. I've been on here since '05. MMA fans don't like the idea that fighting isn't this 100% skill thing like you have in other sports like baseball. They don't like the fact that if you have enough size and athleticism with one really good skill skillset you can fast track over most of the competition and get to the highest level of the sport because at the end of the day it's the sport of fighting and fighting isn't the same as mastering how to shoot a basketball or throw a football(plus the athletes in mma at HW are crap compared to other stick and ball sports). You can't diminish Lesnar's record because you don't like how he got it.
 
Ronda has no lateral movement necessary in combat sports especially when you fight someone who can strike and back you down. I do not see how you can call her a great athlete. Im not saying Brock was great at MMA but he did face legit competition and won a title only a few years after he started training MMA.
 
bubbleboyjones said:
No he wouldn't. Kimbo wouldn't even have made it to the second.

Listen I get the Brock hate. I've been on here since '05. MMA fans don't like the idea that fighting isn't this 100% skill thing like you have in other sports like baseball. They don't like the fact that if you have enough size and athleticism with one really good skill skillset you can fast track over most of the competition and get to the highest level of the sport because at the end of the day it's the sport of fighting and fighting isn't the same as mastering how to shoot a basketball or throw a football(plus the athletes in mma at HW are crap compared to other stick and ball sports). You can't diminish Lesnar's record because you don't like how he got it.
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Do you really believe that Brock had good wrestling for mma? It was just a tad bit above average and would have just been simply average if it wasn't for his size. The only thing he ever did that impressed me at the high level was control Mir on the ground and beat the shit out of him. And Mir isn't even a great win but Brock gets props from me for that 1 fight. When it came to fighting any other top fighter, Brock was horrible. That is not hate, that is a fact. Why else would he leave the sport for good after just a few fights? After the Overeem fight he realized that he knew better than to ever get in the cage ever again.
 
Good comparison. Both limited while standing and striking while being good-to-very-good on the ground.

I don't see Honda climbing into the cage to face a devastating knockout artist ever again, though. Brock even agreeing to that Hunt fight impresses me.
 
Fraser B said:
Do you really believe that Brock had good wrestling for mma? It was just a tad bit above average and would have just been simply average if it wasn't for his size. The only thing he ever did that impressed me at the high level was control Mir on the ground and beat the shit out of him. And Mir isn't even a great win but Brock gets props from me for that 1 fight. When it came to fighting any other top fighter, Brock was horrible. That is not hate, that is a fact.
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He's not Khabib but he's managed to utilize his wrestling enough to get a lot of takedowns which is all he needs because of his size. Doesn't have to be pretty, it's HW MMA.





Why else would he leave the sport for good after just a few fights? After the Overeem fight he realized that he knew better than to ever get in the cage ever again.
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Well he's a wealthy guy who didn't need to fight to put food on the table for his family and he had serious health issues and his game was dependent on his athleticism. If you're a guy who depends on that then it doesn't take much to really throw off your game and you look like shit. Also it doesn't help morale considering that the version of Overeem that Lesnar fought was the best version of Overeem in the UFC to date. Every other version of Overeem after that was a smaller version and was physically a different fighter.
 
bubbleboyjones said:
Well he's a wealthy guy who didn't need to fight to put food on the table for his family and he had serious health issues and his game was dependent on his athleticism. If you're a guy who depends on that then it doesn't take much to really throw off your game and you look like shit. Also it doesn't help morale considering that the version of Overeem that Lesnar fought was the best version of Overeem in the UFC to date. Every other version of Overeem after that was a smaller version and was physically a different fighter.
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I get that he was wealthy. But you can't play the health issue card. Most fighters have all kinds of health issues, some more serious that other. Most fighters go into fights with health issues, some more serious than others. For the most part we really aren't for sure how bad these health issues affected any of these fighters. Brock seems to be one of the only ones who gets a free pass for his health issues and the reason why is because of everything I've been saying. Brock is the most hyped/overrated fighter in the history of mma and it's not even close.
 
Fraser B said:
I get that he was wealthy. But you can't play the health issue card. Most fighters have all kinds of health issues, some more serious that other. Most fighters go into fights with health issues, some more serious than others. For the most part we really aren't for sure how bad these health issues affected any of these fighters. Brock seems to be one of the only ones who gets a free pass for his health issues and the reason why is because of everything I've been saying.
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What free pass? You asked why he left mma and I simply said he was a wealthy guy who didn't need to fight for money and he did indeed get seriously ill. You agreed with me that he was wealthy and didn't need fighting to feed his family. So why won't you acknowledge that him getting a foot of his colon removed probably did have an impact of his physicality and he wanted out of fighting as a result. Why won't you acknowledge that? It's not an excuse it's what happen. It's the same thing with Frank Mir when he got into a motorcycle accident. It took him 3 years before he even started to resemble his old self. It's not an excuse, it just the facts. Somehow your trying to diminish Lesnar's title run based on his fight with Overeem which makes no sense. You cannot diminish an athletes accomplishments based on separate ones. Fighting fans do this all the time and it's hilarious. It's the only sport(along with boxing) where fans can't grasp the concept that an athlete's performance varies (year to year/season to season/fight to fight). Only a dope would try to argue Brian Wilson wasn't baseball's best closer in 2010 because he got injured and ended up being terrible every year after that to the point where he couldn't even land a job in baseball.


Brock is the most hyped/overrated fighter in the history of mma and it's not even close.
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You said he was never a legit fighter. I'm simply saying it's literally impossible to win a UFC belt, defend it twice and somehow not be legit. You're admitting MMA is a fringe sport that any meathead can win at the highest levels. It's like saying some schmuck can win a couple super bowls and not be a legit quarterback.
 
venivedivici said:
- both are great athletes
- both are great in their respective disciplines (judo/wrestling)
- both polarizing figures outside of the cage
- both huge draws who bring in casual and non fans to watch
- both make huge pay days
- both have ATROCIOUS striking
- both cannot take a punch
- both white/blonde hair/blue eyed 'great white hopes'
- both will prob never fight in the cage again.

The obvious difference is Brock seemed to take losses in stride.
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Brock could not take a punch? You should at least watch his fights
<{hughesimpress}>
 
bubbleboyjones said:
What free pass? You asked why he left mma and I simply said he was a wealthy guy who didn't need to fight for money and he did indeed get seriously ill. You agreed with me that he was wealthy and didn't need fighting to feed his family. So why won't you acknowledge that him getting a foot of his colon removed probably did have an impact of his physicality and he wanted out of fighting as a result. Why won't you acknowledge that? It's not an excuse it's what happen. It's the same thing with Frank Mir when he got into a motorcycle accident. It took him 3 years before he even started to resemble his old self. It's not an excuse, it just the facts. Somehow your trying to diminish Lesnar's title run based on his fight with Overeem which makes no sense. You cannot diminish an athletes accomplishments based on separate ones. Fighting fans do this all the time and it's hilarious. It's the only sport(along with boxing) where fans can't grasp the concept that an athlete's performance varies (year to year/season to season/fight to fight). Only a dope would try to argue Brian Wilson wasn't baseball's best closer in 2010 because he got injured and ended up being terrible every year after that to the point where he couldn't even land a job in baseball.
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Like I said we will never know. Tons of other fighters have had all kinds of surgeries throughout their career. Illnesses, you name it. I remember what happened with Frank as if it was yesterday. But Brock only fought a few times and to blame his losses on an illness or injury is ridiculous. Maybe if he would have fought at least 20 times we would have a better understanding. But fighting times and looking terrible in most of his fights and then saying that the fights he looked the worst in was because he was sick, is silly. We just didn't see enough of him and what we did see for the most part wasn't good, and that's because he was never good when it came to top fighters. The title meant shit at that point. It wasn't till JDS fought Cain that it brought credibility back to the HW championship.
 
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