Rolling with guys w/o any control

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Lucan

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I have been training BJJ for a few years and never shy away from rolling with anyone, even if they can tap me repeatedly. There are a few real heavy guys, and or strong guys however, that always roll so hard that it is not enjoyable.

A few weeks ago, I was injured by rolling with one of them who always uses weight and strength instead of technique. Luckily my injury was minor, but could have been devastating from how I landed. I think that its only a matter of time before someone really gets hurt by these guys, who dont seem to get it, but always just power their way to a tap.

How do you teach or tell these lugs that they need to lighten up? Also, if I roll with these guys, what is the best way to account for and control the weight and strength? This is frustrating to a lot of guys at my school.
 
correct me if i am wrong, but i dont think its too mean if you hold a submission a tad longer, just to humble them out a little bit. im real small, and been training for 3 and a half years, what works for me is just to not let them get close, play spider, or open, and keep a distance. i hate big guys =\
 
knee on belly is like robitussin... it ails all cures
 
As a bigger guy, whenever I roll with smaller guys I always try to not muscle/etc.. but sometimes guys tell me I'm doing it without realizing. So talk to them. If they are such blatant meatheads they continue, just don't roll with them. On a side note though, its good to roll against bigger/stronger guys. Lots of people avoid it and then wonder why they have problems later.
 
i hate these kinds of ppl and as much as possible try to not to roll with them
 
its always them crazy newbies/whitebelts that cause the most damage. anwyays, i have the same problem at my gym and everyone know this guy is just way too aggressive and hates rolling with him. i guess you just got to be honest and tell them that you want to practice techniques instead of going all out.
 
Start with butterfly guard and try not to be directly in front of them. I always try to be at an angle, and work for the back. Arm drag to the back. Most of the time it ends up in a stalemate where I am halfway to their back and they hold on for dear life.

At this time you start relaxing and using technique( small calculated movements) while they are gassing and exhausting their muscles.

I roll with two guys at the gym that are about 285 and if they get me in side control, I' m in a really hard spot. They usually clamp down on your head and lay all their weight on you. It has been pretty good practice for me though.
I always try sneaking my feet between their legs (half guard, butterfly, x-guard) and it really works.
You still have to be careful, because they will occasionally chuck you of their back and landing sucks at that time (I ve messed up my hand pretty good because of this and various other body parts).
One thing that I noticed with big guys is that they love headlocks and neck cranks.
 
This might be obvious, but with bigger/heavier guys, try to play more of the top game.

If I get stuck beneath someone much heavier than me, I'll fight to get to butterfly and sweep to mount. I'm a 150lb purple belt and I regularly roll with a 270lb blue belt and butterfly sweep to mount is basically what I do... If I'm in their guard, then I'll focus on passing to get side or mount.

Whenever I'm in a bottom position, my main goal is to reverse and get to the top and keep it. From there, I just move around on top and use my speed to overcome their strength. Usually, bigger guys tire faster and a sub will present itself.

If you're unable to get a better position and they're just smashing you, then tell them to lighten up and focus more on technique. It's just not worth rolling with much heavier guys if you're putting yourself at risk of injury. If they don't change, then don't roll with them, or learn to deal with heavier guys (see above).
 
Lucan said:
I have been training BJJ for a few years and never shy away from rolling with anyone, even if they can tap me repeatedly. There are a few real heavy guys, and or strong guys however, that always roll so hard that it is not enjoyable.

A few weeks ago, I was injured by rolling with one of them who always uses weight and strength instead of technique. Luckily my injury was minor, but could have been devastating from how I landed. I think that its only a matter of time before someone really gets hurt by these guys, who dont seem to get it, but always just power their way to a tap.

How do you teach or tell these lugs that they need to lighten up? Also, if I roll with these guys, what is the best way to account for and control the weight and strength? This is frustrating to a lot of guys at my school.
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I honestly think the only way to get them to lighten up is to tap them out. Now, if they're a good student and you know they'll listen, of course you want to talk to them... but if they're not, that's when you tap them a lot. Eventually they'll figure out that they have to slow down and learn technique if they want to improve.

As for how to grapple against them? There's a good chance you'll start on your book so you need to figure out how to get on top. In particular, arm drag to back (from Butterfly mostly) and what Eddie Bravo refers to as "Old School" (Half-Guard Sweep) are the two I get most of the time. If they're dumb and lean into you in closed guard, you can double under-hook or arm drag to back.

The goal when you're fighting a BIG guy off your back, in my opinion, is not to submit them. It CAN be done, but it's going to be very difficult. I'd much rather work for a sweep or take their back. Finishing off a submission will be easier from more superior positions like side control or the back... especially a Rear Naked Choke or North South Choke.

The reason I say it's harder to submit off your back is because most people will stack to escape an armbar or a triangle. Yes, you can finish while being stacked, but it's very difficult to do when you have a HEAVY guy on top of you.
 
I am a strong mid to large size dude and I roll with anyone in class, and really the only people that bang me up are just people with no control period. If they are bigger or smaller it does'nt matter.

I usually roll with the biggest guy in my class because a lot of people want same size opponents. So I get beat up for a while, it sure does take me longer to get the sweep against him. I usually get it after a few set up or I trick him into going for a move that I know the counter to.

Last week I played open guard to butterfly then swept him over with ease. He did'nt expect me to so I gain a little bit more respect from him and the class.
 
chicagocombat said:
I am a strong mid to large size dude and I roll with anyone in class, and really the only people that bang me up are just people with no control period. If they are bigger or smaller it does'nt matter.

I usually roll with the biggest guy in my class because a lot of people want same size opponents. So I get beat up for a while, it sure does take me longer to get the sweep against him. I usually get it after a few set up or I trick him into going for a move that I know the counter to.

Last week I played open guard to butterfly then swept him over with ease. He did'nt expect me to so I gain a little bit more respect from him and the class.
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exactly. I'm 5'11 and 218lbs. Most injuries I've got was against guys who were 150lbs and less. I've taken many heels and elbows to the face because they panic if I'm close to passing their guard.
 
im a big guy (6ft 2 - 245) and I always have problems with smaller guys who constally throw their feet around/use angles...move lots and the biggers will have to adapt.

Our gym wants us to use our strengths (size and weight) because they are our strenghts (weight on chest in side control etc..)...but stress not to use shear power over technique.

If you avoid the bigger guys then you are going to have problems when you face a bigger opposition..roll with everyone...try to learn something with each.
 
If they really are throwing you around, all muscle, with no consideration for safety, a simple "whoah, easy dude" should suffice. You're in this to train, not to get hurt - just let them know! If that still doesn't get through to them, let the instructor know so they could handle it.

However, if you're being overworked due to "athleticism" and "explosiveness", you may have to up your game accordingly. I'm going to assume your situation applies to the first scenario (roughing), so I'll shut up now :) Hope this helps!
 
Tapping people like this doesn't really work.

Why? Because they then think that they have to work even harder to redeem themselves. They have to be educated or simply ignored. Pair two them up together and let them sort it out.
 
I'm one of the only 135lb fighters at my club. Most of the guys are 170lbs plus, and I often roll with white belts who are 190+ aswell. I like rolling with bigger guys. It's more realistic of me to do this, as if I am ever attacked in the street, it's always going to be by someone bigger than I am.

If someone is trying to use their weight or strength to get submissions on you, than use this and use this often. I love it. The only problem with it is, if you're grappling a guy who is much heavier than you, and he's out of shape, he'll puke all over your chest.

Believe me. It's happened.

YouTube - Scorpion Crunch

Sorry, I don't know how to embed a video on this site. My youtube tags didn't work.
 
When ever a new big guy at our school signs up, our coach pairs him up with one of our smallest, most technical guys. After a 220 lbs meathead gets tapped 5 times in 3 minutes by a 130 lbs kid, they begin to realize that they are doing something wrong. Humility is usually a precursor to education.
 
i roll with this guy that i'm bigger than but he has no control in that he swings his arms and legs crazy so i ALWAYS get hit in the face
 
Thanks all for the responses to this question. I never avoid someone because they are bigger, stronger, or better, in fact I try to go with them when Im fresh. I always wear a mouthguard and I dont get too annoyed with the inadvertant knees or elbow. I have had a few black eyes and cut lips.
My problem however is rolling with the meathead (whether he is real heavy or real strong) who always rolls like hes fighting for a title shot and always has to power his way to a submission. Im talking about the guy who goes about 250 or more and drops his weight on you like hes in the the WWF, instead of normally securing a good position, or the wrestler that throws your legs to the side like he wants to slam them through the floor. I can usually hold my own with these guys, but got hurt by one recently, and I can tell others are tired of this s**t too. This is also the guy that gets the RNC, and doesnt have the choke in, but crushes your jaw until you tap. A lot of good advise, more tips would be appreciated. One more point, I agree with JAGCORP in that tapping them usually doesnt work with them as it just make them push harder to submit someone even at the expense of hurting them.
 
Ok I am one of those big guys that people think I am using brute strenght all the time, reality is I am a provincial medalist wrestler , was,and I was always the weakest in my weight class almost, I come train bjj people think I try to hard because I pass their guard and dominate, reality is I know how to control my weight weight and the other guys weight, I know the smaller guys think i try too hard becuase the are getting controlled by me, especially because I am considered a complete newbie, they can't handle the fact wrestling is very comparable to bjj but without the subs, so I am know I can control them I ask to start in bottom guard or half guard because my wrestling experience never let me work from this position and the smaller guy tdoesnt get pissed that I am stronger, I work my bottom game to me its a lot more fascinating anyways, and the weaker guy works his top game now everyone is happy
 
biggino said:
Ok I am one of those big guys that people think I am using brute strenght all the time, reality is I am a provincial medalist wrestler , was,and I was always the weakest in my weight class almost, I come train bjj people think I try to hard because I pass their guard and dominate, reality is I know how to control my weight weight and the other guys weight, I know the smaller guys think i try too hard becuase the are getting controlled by me, especially because I am considered a complete newbie, they can't handle the fact wrestling is very comparable to bjj but without the subs, so I am know I can control them I ask to start in bottom guard or half guard because my wrestling experience never let me work from this position and the smaller guy tdoesnt get pissed that I am stronger, I work my bottom game to me its a lot more fascinating anyways, and the weaker guy works his top game now everyone is happy
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You're not who we are talking about. I roll with some really strong guys, some ex-college football linemen, some ex-D1 wrestlers, etc. They are all great.

It's the tough guys that suck. They come in and don't know how to do anything half way. They go all out all the time, without regard for themselves or others. They commit fully and wildly to nothing that looks like technique at all. Simply put, they are dangerous. Now, some can be cured...they just need to see that their theory doesn't work. Some can't.

It has become my task to deal with all newb spazzes (or my instructor) at my school (6'2" and 255). I basically let them wear themselves out and then submit them...or I sweep them all over the place...and submit them....or, if it really becomes necessary, I throw them, crush them with gratuitous amounts of knee-on-belly...and submit them.

They either learn that their spaz attack is not going to work....or they get tired of getting a mudhole stomped in their ass...and they leave.
 
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