Rolling strictly for the tap

Another way to try to deal with guys like that is just to flat out ask them, "Hey do mind if we keep it technical today. I have a few thing I would like to work on and I can't do that as well if I am trying to survive?"

This works for two reasons, you have already semi-conceded defeat by the "survive" comment and he would have to admit that he wants to beat you rather than learn. By claiming you can't work on things, if you are trying to survive he gets the ego boost "ie I am so good he needs me to tone it down do work on things" and it gives him an out later if you run a clinic on him...he was letting you work on some things. And who wants to be the guy that refused to let some one learn so he could win at practice?

Another one that works is to claim a minor injury. It takes the ego out of it because who can be proud of beating the injured guy? I don't mean lie but most of us are nursing an injury or two but we just keep it to ourselves. Just say, "Hey, my knee is a little sore, can we go at like 75% intensity tonight?" If you take down the intensity a notch, it should be easier to force him away from his comfort zone. If he can keep you there, at a lower intensity maybe it is worth staying there and practicing how to defeat it.

I don't like that, I gotta say. I don't like taking the edge off of things by prefacing your roll. If they "camp" or they go all out every time, so be it. Roll with them and beat them at their game. It keeps YOU on your toes and makes YOU rise to the occasion. Get good enough at that and you can rise to the occasion whenever you need to.

You'll get your chance to work technique with someone else. Right now, tho, you've got a stiff match to deal with, so deal with it. Nothings better for your own ego than shoving someone elses ego (deservingly) down their own throat.
 
You'll get your chance to work technique with someone else. Right now, tho, you've got a stiff match to deal with, so deal with it. Nothings better for your own ego than shoving someone elses ego (deservingly) down their own throat.

The problem I find with doing this is that they'll want vengeance to heal their ego rather than learn from it. I actually saw one of these guys get tooled with an armbar by a newer guy then the A game camper got his kimura from the side and cranked it like crazy. Haven't seen that dude back so I think something is up with his elbow. It's nice if people lose some ego but most of these guys are macho dicks and rather than lose it they'll try to regain it and probably hurt someone in the process.
 
The problem I find with doing this is that they'll want vengeance to heal their ego rather than learn from it. I actually saw one of these guys get tooled with an armbar by a newer guy then the A game camper got his kimura from the side and cranked it like crazy. Haven't seen that dude back so I think something is up with his elbow. It's nice if people lose some ego but most of these guys are macho dicks and rather than lose it they'll try to regain it and probably hurt someone in the process.

Yeah. I had some guy a couple weeks ago pull that shit. I hadn't been to the gym for a few weeks cause of work, and I get back and the regulars are talking about this new guy that's been running through people. Big guy, real athletic. Like 5'11, 205. So I had to test him out. He's a little heavier than me and a good amount stronger. I'm 195 but stretched out over 6'2. Anyway, we roll for a couple minutes and I tie him up in a triangle. He was tough! I seriously fought him in that triangle for over a minute. Finally, sputtering, he taps. The guy was -seething-! Anyway, I don't tap someone and just stroll away, so I offered him another round.

The triangle is definitely my "A" move, so I don't want to use that again, so I slide back and go to play a guard game. The guy scooped up my legs and basically squeezed my feet to his chest in a weird way that was just attacking my toes. Crushing them kinda. So I start tapping to get him to quit and save me some broken bones. He looks a little vindicated and I'm fucking pissed. Seemed like he tried to injure me. (Kinda did. I still feel it weeks later, but no big deal.) So I wiggle my toes, make sure they're in tact and get ready to fuck this guy up in our next roll, so I put out my hand to slap his to get started and he says "Naw. I'm good". He gets up and leaves and hasn't been back since.

The guys in the class said no one tapped him in the couple weeks I was gone, so I can only assume he didn't like it to the point that he had to get me back by injuring me then taking off.
 
You'll get your chance to work technique with someone else. Right now, tho, you've got a stiff match to deal with, so deal with it. Nothings better for your own ego than shoving someone elses ego (deservingly) down their own throat.


You've completely missed the point. I don't give a rat's ass about ego. I don't need to prove anything to anyone. I want to work on my butterfly sweep against resistance or I want to improve my guard. I don't need to win. Case in point, tonight I rolled with a guy who has been at the gym for about a year (I actually taught him grappling basics about 10 years ago). He has been training solid for the last year where I have been out of the game for awhile. I out weighed him by a fair amount and I could have muscled him around and tapped him with my go to moves but what is the point to that? What would I have gain and what would he have gained?

Listen, I have been fighting since I was 14, I have been in the military since I was 17. I don't need to prove shit to no one. I am their to learn, bottom line. If I want to win a medal I will go to a tournament. Or If am a prepping for a tournament (or helping prep someone) we will train accordingly but most nights, I just want a resisting opponent and I want to stay healthy. I try to give the same courtesy to my partner.
 
Hmm I hate that. I'm still a beginner, of 4 months roughly, and a good number of way more experienced guys just go right for the submissions on me. Some fatass was sparring and just LNP'ed me (stayed in my guard) for a few minutes, and then did a neck crank. What the hell is the point of sparring if you don't want to practice a wide range of techniques and positions?

because peopel are scared to lose there spot to more inexperienced guys . its an ego thing , they dont relise by trying new things and getting subed for it will make you learn from your mistakes.
 
Yeah. I had some guy a couple weeks ago pull that shit. I hadn't been to the gym for a few weeks cause of work, and I get back and the regulars are talking about this new guy that's been running through people. Big guy, real athletic. Like 5'11, 205. So I had to test him out. He's a little heavier than me and a good amount stronger. I'm 195 but stretched out over 6'2. Anyway, we roll for a couple minutes and I tie him up in a triangle. He was tough! I seriously fought him in that triangle for over a minute. Finally, sputtering, he taps. The guy was -seething-! Anyway, I don't tap someone and just stroll away, so I offered him another round.

The triangle is definitely my "A" move, so I don't want to use that again, so I slide back and go to play a guard game. The guy scooped up my legs and basically squeezed my feet to his chest in a weird way that was just attacking my toes. Crushing them kinda. So I start tapping to get him to quit and save me some broken bones. He looks a little vindicated and I'm fucking pissed. Seemed like he tried to injure me. (Kinda did. I still feel it weeks later, but no big deal.) So I wiggle my toes, make sure they're in tact and get ready to fuck this guy up in our next roll, so I put out my hand to slap his to get started and he says "Naw. I'm good". He gets up and leaves and hasn't been back since.

The guys in the class said no one tapped him in the couple weeks I was gone, so I can only assume he didn't like it to the point that he had to get me back by injuring me then taking off.

That is exactly the environment that should not be fostered in a jiu jitsu class.

Everyone talking about who taps who.

Taking that roll you described:
- you got nothing out of it, but an ego boost for tapping him.
- he got nothing out of it, but a fluke tap.

No one learned anything.

Of course you need to roll competitively at times but with reliable partners.

Your whole post smells of ego.
 
You've completely missed the point. I don't give a rat's ass about ego. I don't need to prove anything to anyone. I want to work on my butterfly sweep against resistance or I want to improve my guard. I don't need to win. Case in point, tonight I rolled with a guy who has been at the gym for about a year (I actually taught him grappling basics about 10 years ago). He has been training solid for the last year where I have been out of the game for awhile. I out weighed him by a fair amount and I could have muscled him around and tapped him with my go to moves but what is the point to that? What would I have gain and what would he have gained?

Listen, I have been fighting since I was 14, I have been in the military since I was 17. I don't need to prove shit to no one. I am their to learn, bottom line. If I want to win a medal I will go to a tournament. Or If am a prepping for a tournament (or helping prep someone) we will train accordingly but most nights, I just want a resisting opponent and I want to stay healthy. I try to give the same courtesy to my partner.

I think you're missing my point, considering the point you sited didn't jibe against what I was saying. My point was that In tournament play, you don't select your opponent. And you don't select your opponent's style. And you don't select your opponent's skill level. So in training, it seems to me, at least, a bit detrimental to your OWN game to not take everything that's given to you and use it for what it's worth. Tough match-up? Someone going 100%? Bigger than you? One trick pony? So what? Roll with these guys... and roll to win. THEN grab that weaker guy or the guy that's a strong player and already cool about drilling and work your game. I'm not saying you need to spank everyone in the gym and gloat. But if someone in the gym is a bit of a jerk, then I'll humble them.

That is exactly the environment that should not be fostered in a jiu jitsu class.

Everyone talking about who taps who.

Taking that roll you described:
- you got nothing out of it, but an ego boost for tapping him.
- he got nothing out of it, but a fluke tap.

No one learned anything.

Of course you need to roll competitively at times but with reliable partners.

Your whole post smells of ego.

1) All I heard about the guy was that he was good when I got to class. I was glad, because I need as much challenge as possible. Helps me work on my defense.
2) I tap all day long to everyone in class. Ego doesn't mean anything to me. I was in a great mood til the guy pulled what he did on the second 'roll'. I GAVE him top position. I wanted to work. Ego would have dictated I dominate from the start, wouldn't it?
3) HIS ego was hurt, so he went after me. Definitely not the environment for jiu-jitsu class. I agree.
4) I should have probably been the one to walk away, but I was frustrated by what he did, so I was going to roll with him again and he left. Probably the best for all of us. My attitude at that point wasn't good for a jiu-jitsu class, either.

Anyway... I can't agree that my 'whole post smells of ego'. Half, sure. My own, included, after he hurt me. Tap me, no problem. I've been submitted probably as much as I've submitted other people. It's all part of my favorite game. And it wasn't til after he left that one of the guys mentioned he hadn't tapped since starting the class. I just heard he was tough and was excited because I need more tough guys. But HURT me? Yeah, I was upset.

Luckily he left and it was over and done with.
 
I'm not saying you need to spank everyone in the gym and gloat. But if someone in the gym is a bit of a jerk, then I'll humble them.

Well aren't you the bad ass. Good thing you are around to humble people. Nope, no ego here.:rolleyes:
 
I am a BJJ instructor and I tell my students to look for the position for you look for the submission. If you look for the position over the submission, the sub will come more easily, and you won't get tired as easily. This is especially true with beginners they will just look for the submission and expend a lot of energy when they could have gotten the position first and then gone for the submission.
 
Just flow.

If the submission is there take it, regardless if the oppenant is a beginner or experienced.

Don't stop the action though, once you lightly lock the submission flow into another submission (or new position).
 
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