Rolling strictly for the tap

This probablly is not a good thing but I tend to pick a technique I want to use before I even start to grapple and I work towards getting that submission or putting myself in the position to achieve that submission. If another oppurtunity comes up I usually won't take it! It's all up to what I want to achieve and how I want to control the person! That's just me though, i'm a crazy catch wrestler guy training in BJJ!
 
Mr_Kimura said:
This probablly is not a good thing but I tend to pick a technique I want to use before I even start to grapple and I work towards getting that submission or putting myself in the position to achieve that submission. If another oppurtunity comes up I usually won't take it! It's all up to what I want to achieve and how I want to control the person! That's just me though, i'm a crazy catch wrestler guy training in BJJ!
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There's no problem with that. That's one way to get better. You learn a lot about setups that way.
 
I look at it depending on who I'm rolling with. If Its someone on the same level or higher, I'm looking for the tap. I know I need to get better, but I think everyone should be proud of themselves when they tap a higher belt especially. If they're that much better, I wouldn'tve gotten the tap.

That being said, you shouldn't go balls out on guys you know you can tap anyway.
 
this is one of the reasons why being in a legit gym with training partners of different body types and lvls is sooo important. That allows you to pick and choose when to go all out or when to work on your game.
 
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VegasFighter said:
I look at it depending on who I'm rolling with. If Its someone on the same level or higher, I'm looking for the tap. I know I need to get better, but I think everyone should be proud of themselves when they tap a higher belt especially. If they're that much better, I wouldn'tve gotten the tap.

That being said, you shouldn't go balls out on guys you know you can tap anyway.
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Totally aggree with the first part of what you said. It all depends on who you are sparring against and what level they are at. If you want to try new techniques you just learnt against a higher belt, you probably won't even be able to get the setup for that technique.

For example, if I wanted to train omoplata sweeps, in a normal spar most people aren't going to just give me an omoplata. I have to work for that position which might take quite some time. So for trying out new techniques I would say position sparring is far better in general for trying new techniques.

You should never crank submissions whether its with higher belts or lower belts. My foot feckin hurts from a foot lock which may stop me from competing in the next week or so.
 
i start in turtle postion sometimes to get out or start from guard its good to put your self in a bad position to get out of it and back to a dominant one .

if its not a tournament why not improve your self ??
 
ShanghaiBJJ said:
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Watching Marcelo spar is like seeing poetry in motion.
 
Trickster said:
Let me start by saying that I am not one of these people.....but Isnt the POINT of BJJ to get the tap?
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In a competitions yes. But in your gym your training partners are just that, your training partners. You are not opponents you are partners. They are there to make you better and you are there to make them better. If you master one submission and continuously use that same submission, how are you improving? If you alway play the top game and never try escapes, how are you getting better at escapes? I'm not saying that you need hundreds of moves but you need to have a well rounded game. If you always go for the tap you will rely on what works (ie those techniques that you have already mastered) and neglect your weaknesses when in reality you should be working on your weaknesses.

As far as "cranking" submissions that's a good way to injure a perfectly good training partner. Anybody that has done this for any period of time knows when you have a submission set. More importantly, your partner knows when you have the submission, there is no need to "crank" anything.

I don't think that the op sounds like a "cry baby". He has a valid point. I think that the need to tap your training partners dissipates the longer you stay in the game.

I think that one of the biggest mistakes that some people make is to treat every sparring session as if it is a competition. I think that you should vary the intensity of your sparring sessions but I for one don't feel compelled to tap every one of my training partners. Often I will work a technique until I feel that I have become sufficiently proficient at it, then I will move on to a different technique altogether. I would rather get tapped learning a new technique than tap someone 20 times with the same submission. That's just me though.
 
thanks for bringing up this point. I've been neglecting newaza for standup for a really long time now, as far as research goes, and I am an A-game camper :( well maybe not totally but still not as much experimentation as I should. I think I've stagnated at about a blue level for a couple years now. gah...

judo!
 
Awesome feedback guys, thanks a bunch. That article about Sylvio is very cool, I'm going to actually meet him on the 10th or 11th, now I look forward to it that much more.

So I guess the concensus is it's a phase that most people grow out of if they stick with it long enough. What do you guys normally do when rolling with A game campers? So far I've just been sitting in side mount and keeping it really tight. I figure the more uncomfortable they are, the more likely to try an escape they learned. Any ideas?
 
Hmm I hate that. I'm still a beginner, of 4 months roughly, and a good number of way more experienced guys just go right for the submissions on me. Some fatass was sparring and just LNP'ed me (stayed in my guard) for a few minutes, and then did a neck crank. What the hell is the point of sparring if you don't want to practice a wide range of techniques and positions?
 
StudentLoan said:
Awesome feedback guys, thanks a bunch. That article about Sylvio is very cool, I'm going to actually meet him on the 10th or 11th, now I look forward to it that much more.

So I guess the concensus is it's a phase that most people grow out of if they stick with it long enough. What do you guys normally do when rolling with A game campers? So far I've just been sitting in side mount and keeping it really tight. I figure the more uncomfortable they are, the more likely to try an escape they learned. Any ideas?
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go about your business. Over time, you will start hit the techniques you try. If they fail, examine why and try not to do it again.
 
Another way to try to deal with guys like that is just to flat out ask them, "Hey do mind if we keep it technical today. I have a few thing I would like to work on and I can't do that as well if I am trying to survive?"

This works for two reasons, you have already semi-conceded defeat by the "survive" comment and he would have to admit that he wants to beat you rather than learn. By claiming you can't work on things, if you are trying to survive he gets the ego boost "ie I am so good he needs me to tone it down do work on things" and it gives him an out later if you run a clinic on him...he was letting you work on some things. And who wants to be the guy that refused to let some one learn so he could win at practice?

Another one that works is to claim a minor injury. It takes the ego out of it because who can be proud of beating the injured guy? I don't mean lie but most of us are nursing an injury or two but we just keep it to ourselves. Just say, "Hey, my knee is a little sore, can we go at like 75% intensity tonight?" If you take down the intensity a notch, it should be easier to force him away from his comfort zone. If he can keep you there, at a lower intensity maybe it is worth staying there and practicing how to defeat it.
 
SlowlyWeRot said:
Hmm I hate that. I'm still a beginner, of 4 months roughly, and a good number of way more experienced guys just go right for the submissions on me. Some fatass was sparring and just LNP'ed me (stayed in my guard) for a few minutes, and then did a neck crank. What the hell is the point of sparring if you don't want to practice a wide range of techniques and positions?
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I think, personally, that when you're new, drilling is for technique and sparring is for surviving/getting your ass kicked. It makes you tough. It ups your cardio. And it forces you to work on your defense.

Then, when new guys join, you get the chance to utilize what you've learned when you match with them. The rest of the guys stay stagnant because they're too busy getting off on tapping new guys easily and you're improving your game on the new guys and cardio on the old guys.

Stick with it. You'll get your shot and you'll pass them up.

Tony Manifold said:
Another way to try to deal with guys like that is just to flat out ask them, "Hey do mind if we keep it technical today. I have a few thing I would like to work on and I can't do that as well if I am trying to survive?"

This works for two reasons, you have already semi-conceded defeat by the "survive" comment and he would have to admit that he wants to beat you rather than learn. By claiming you can't work on things, if you are trying to survive he gets the ego boost "ie I am so good he needs me to tone it down do work on things" and it gives him an out later if you run a clinic on him...he was letting you work on some things. And who wants to be the guy that refused to let some one learn so he could win at practice?

Another one that works is to claim a minor injury. It takes the ego out of it because who can be proud of beating the injured guy? I don't mean lie but most of us are nursing an injury or two but we just keep it to ourselves. Just say, "Hey, my knee is a little sore, can we go at like 75% intensity tonight?" If you take down the intensity a notch, it should be easier to force him away from his comfort zone. If he can keep you there, at a lower intensity maybe it is worth staying there and practicing how to defeat it.
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I don't like that, I gotta say. I don't like taking the edge off of things by prefacing your roll. If they "camp" or they go all out every time, so be it. Roll with them and beat them at their game. It keeps YOU on your toes and makes YOU rise to the occasion. Get good enough at that and you can rise to the occasion whenever you need to.

You'll get your chance to work technique with someone else. Right now, tho, you've got a stiff match to deal with, so deal with it. Nothings better for your own ego than shoving someone elses ego (deservingly) down their own throat.
 
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