Rolling strictly for the tap (The other side)

[Trickster***]

I would have guessed that this would still be true anywhere there's a significant skills gap e.g,. low blues vs. black belts...that if both were going 100% (and roughly the same size), it would just be a tap-fest with not much opportunity for learning on either side. But obviously I have no idea, so I could be wrong.

When I roll with my instructor he doesnt exactly go balls to the wall but he IS constantly working for subs...and when he gets them he takes them. But I have NOOOOO problem with that! I want to know that higher level of skill, I wnat to FEEL the pressure of a GOOD TIGHT submission, I want to see the seet ups, I want to speed etc.

So even though I am the one being tapped I am learning offense too...from watching what HE does to me! Then when I roll with lesser skilled guys I do it to them and I hope it helps them the same way....in fact Im sure it does bc they get a lot better. I am a 4 stripe white belt and I beleive that I am above my skill level (not leaps and bounds above but slightly better than the avg high white) and I attribute that to rolling with the few higher belts in my school (bc the school is new) and getting my ass kicked but then also rolling with newer guys and beating them.

I guess what we have learned thru this discussion is that everyone trains a lil differently and there isnt only ONE way to learn. Tough love works and so does being nurtured!

 

[StudentLoan]

I would have guessed that this would still be true anywhere there's a significant skills gap e.g,. low blues vs. black belts...that if both were going 100% (and roughly the same size), it would just be a tap-fest with not much opportunity for learning on either side. But obviously I have no idea, so I could be wrong.

Tap-fests get us no where! Last night I rolled with a blue belt that had about 30 Lbs on me. He just went 100% and completely destroyed me with super tight armbars. I tapped and learned that I probably shouldn't roll with him until I'm better. Then I rolled with a brown belt a little bigger than me. He gave up positions and let me work passes and escapes, then when he felt I'd made some progress and implemented things we learned he swept me and went for the armbar. Once he got the armbar, rather than put a pause in the action, he loosened it up and allowed me to get out and try for positions again. Then when the round was done he explained to me what I should improve on and what I was doing well already (we both knew he had the armbar and could've finished).

Oh and he has a broken hand, so he was just going at me with one hand. Even with just the one hand he could've destroyed me but there's nothing in it for him had he done so. This way he got to play around with positions he's not normally in given his skill level. Huzzah for like minded individuals!

Trickster, when can I expect the cheques to start coming in?

 

[exile27]

I've only been training for 2 weeks now, so obviously I hardly know what I'm talking about. But just this week our instructor gave us basicly the same speech as what Eddie Bravo said in his video. As a BJJ noob, it makes perfect sense to me.

Just my $0.02

 

[Trickster***]

I've only been training for 2 weeks now, so obviously I hardly know what I'm talking about. But just this week our instructor gave us basicly the same speech as what Eddie Bravo said in his video. As a BJJ noob, it makes perfect sense to me.

Just my $0.02

BC you are intelligent! This studentloan guy is a clown! :icon_chee
Im jus kidding buddy....I'll send those checks are soon as gas DROPS back down to $3.75 a gallon lol

 

[Mikey Triangles]

I agree with what Eddie says in this video...

YouTube - Eddie Bravo On: the Ego and the Evolution of Jiu Jitsu

Towards the end of the video where he says you work half your techniques (offense) on the weaker guys "Work on the weaker guys, PREY on them - for your offense. And work your defense on the stronger (better) guys."

I only bring this up bc yesterday there as a post about "Strictly going for the Tap" and only myself and one other person disagreed with the TS (and everyone else who replied) saying that you shouldnt let go of a submission....you should finish it if you get it.

I feel exactly how Eddie described it....practice offense on the weak and defense on the strong...thats how it should be! THAT is really helping everyone get better! You have all heard the expression "If you want to be the best, you train with the best" So why let people out of submissions? Let them get tapped 99 times but learn to escape on the 100th....THAT is how people truely get better...........TOUGH LOVE!!

**I am not talking about picking on lil kids/teenagers or woman - Im talking weaker as in...the same size just inferior skill**

On the otherhand (bc I am a white belt) I expect to roll with my instructor and the purple belts and get my ass handed to me....I expect to tap out vs them, and ya know what...I dont want them letting me out of things bc that would build a false sense of security!

Anyway I just wanted to show the other side of this argument....except Eddie says it better!

If you get a submission you should absolutely finish it. not finishing it, and doing things halfway creates weakspots in your game over time.


Working out of bad positions and letting weaker opponents get things on you so you can work defense is great, but don't do things halfass ever. i can tell you from experience that it creates hard to reverse bad habits.

 

[The_Bear]

full on grappling should be done along with low to medium intensity grappling. Full power grappling will let you know how far you've come and assess where to sharpen your skills.

 

[Calogero831]

marcelo says different

think of it this way...

you want to roll FOR the tap, but still roll intelligently. Now if you catch someone in a submission, instead of fighting mercilessly for the tap, let him use an escape. By letting him escape you can practice your counter attacks. By always fighting for the tap on the first sub you catch, you neglect your counter attacks game.

thats a very good point.
i always roll for the tap bc my prof logic. if you never roll for the tap you arent using jiu jitsu for what its supposed to be. improve position and get the tap.
i liek your logic tho. id say once you sing in a technique and know your about to get it dont finish and let your opp work a pass or escape so you get both benefits.
i love working the traingle but sometimes get it passed. i still get confused on how to keep it locked and defend the apss. i guess id learn more if instead of finishing the choke letting them try a pass.

 

[StudentLoan]

BC you are intelligent! This studentloan guy is a clown! :icon_chee
Im jus kidding buddy....I'll send those checks are soon as gas DROPS back down to $3.75 a gallon lol

Clown like a fox. Although I agree more with Marcelo, I love the rubber guard and Eddie is the man. I've gotten what I wanted out of this. Thanks to everyone for sharing.

Oh and it's cheque you damn Yank!

 

[beeble]

I agree with what Eddie says in this video...

YouTube - Eddie Bravo On: the Ego and the Evolution of Jiu Jitsu

Towards the end of the video where he says you work half your techniques (offense) on the weaker guys "Work on the weaker guys, PREY on them - for your offense. And work your defense on the stronger (better) guys."

I only bring this up bc yesterday there as a post about "Strictly going for the Tap" and only myself and one other person disagreed with the TS (and everyone else who replied) saying that you shouldnt let go of a submission....you should finish it if you get it.

I feel exactly how Eddie described it....practice offense on the weak and defense on the strong...thats how it should be! THAT is really helping everyone get better! You have all heard the expression "If you want to be the best, you train with the best" So why let people out of submissions? Let them get tapped 99 times but learn to escape on the 100th....THAT is how people truely get better...........TOUGH LOVE!!

**I am not talking about picking on lil kids/teenagers or woman - Im talking weaker as in...the same size just inferior skill**

On the otherhand (bc I am a white belt) I expect to roll with my instructor and the purple belts and get my ass handed to me....I expect to tap out vs them, and ya know what...I dont want them letting me out of things bc that would build a false sense of security!

Anyway I just wanted to show the other side of this argument....except Eddie says it better!

this can also go the other way around too... work your defense that your not comfortable with on an opponent who hasnt been training very long, say if you arent comfortable in half guard, dont practice half guard defense on someone better than you.. practice defending on someone your better than... as oppose to the higher belts, sometimes a good offense is better than a defense, try going for that submission or taking his back from half guard