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Rolled with a Judo Black belt tonight

codemonkey76

codemonkey76

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and i didn't flog him... in fact he nearly choked me unconscious with a baseball bat choke from knee on belly, that was fun
 
Was he strong?, I find a lot of experienced judo guys are strong bastards.
 
maybe a little bigger than me, not much, maybe 10-15lbs... I just found i took him too lightly and he passed my guard, from there i was screwed, good pins, i couldn't do shit, tried to get back to guard, he went north/south on me, then tried to escape that he came back to side and wrapped up my arm, popped up to KOB and had the collar grip in an instant... what happened, i thought BJJ blue's were supposed to tool judo black's on the ground... :p
 
codemonkey76 said:
maybe a little bigger than me, not much, maybe 10-15lbs... I just found i took him too lightly and he passed my guard, from there i was screwed, good pins, i couldn't do shit, tried to get back to guard, he went north/south on me, then tried to escape that he came back to side and wrapped up my arm, popped up to KOB and had the collar grip in an instant... what happened, i thought BJJ blue's were supposed to tool judo black's on the ground... :p
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think maybe my opinion of judokas being strong is more to do with their ability to control people, especially experienced judokas. I have a friend who is a BJJ blue and Judo brown belt. He was doing Judo 1st and made the transition to BJJ very well. Whenever I spar him I'm always very careful not to let things go past half guard as he's very difficult to regain guard against once he passes - and my guard recovery is pretty good.
 
Remember that not all judo black belts are the same, they vary extremely in calibre. The cardinal rule when sparring or competing against a black belt is never to let them pass your guard.

Their top controll is really good, they really know how to use the gi to controll people which is a skill that I think many blue belts lack. Its mainly upper purple who seem to be able to use the leg pant and top part of the gi to controll people. Up to blue belt most people use the top part of the gi to wrap the arm, turn it behing the person to stop them bumping into you etc. But they don't use the pant leg to controll them when they try to roll to turtle or escape in any way.
 
I havent rolled with many judokas, but from the ones I have rolled with I noticed their grip strength is crazy.
 
I rolled with Judo Black belt/BJJ Blue that was visiting our academy for a month... I tried to play open guard game, but he passed my guard after a min because he was so good with his grips and able to control where I was trying to grab him...

I was not in any danger of tapping to anything, or so I thought... but then he pulled some crazy grip where he wrapped my gi lapel (under my back and around my stomach) and basically did a baseball bat choke to my stomach from side control, I tapped simply from not being able to inhale (granted it was my third fight at the end of practice and I was already winded).. but still totally caught me off guard...and I think I may have even had to tap if I was fresh, though cannot say for sure..

I guess the point is... I was busy worrying about my arms and neck... and he pulled that off in very quick and sneaky fashion.. I didnt even notice him playing with my lapel... do you guys ever learn these types of "body lock, body constrictor" holds in your BJJ class?

The Judokas def have some tricks up their sleeve.. and he told me it was more of a Judo thing when we were done....

:icon_chee
 
I rolled with an olympic judoka once who had about 50 lbs on me (no gi). He was crazy strong and his pins were impossible to get out of. However, once you passed his guard, he would turn to turtle, he didn't defend hooks at all, and his defense against the RNC consisted of just trying to tuck his chin. Needless to say, I managed to choke him a couple times. It was weird. The rest of his grappling was so solid, but he had some huge gaping holes in his ground game compared to most of the guys I roll with.
 
Czyivn said:
I rolled with an olympic judoka once who had about 50 lbs on me (no gi). He was crazy strong and his pins were impossible to get out of. However, once you passed his guard, he would turn to turtle, he didn't defend hooks at all, and his defense against the RNC consisted of just trying to tuck his chin. Needless to say, I managed to choke him a couple times. It was weird. The rest of his grappling was so solid, but he had some huge gaping holes in his ground game compared to most of the guys I roll with.
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He was an olympian or with olympic you mean "guy that compete in IJF tournament" ? if he was an olympian what's his name?

By the way a judoka that train in no-gi for the first time for sure has a lot of holes in his game (like leglocks) and he is not ready for the thing that you can't do in judo, like the people that sink rnc pushing in your nose or other dirty trick (in judo, it's illegal to touch the oval of the face).
 
ozyabbas said:
Remember that not all judo black belts are the same, they vary extremely in calibre. The cardinal rule when sparring or competing against a black belt is never to let them pass your guard.

Their top controll is really good, they really know how to use the gi to controll people which is a skill that I think many blue belts lack. Its mainly upper purple who seem to be able to use the leg pant and top part of the gi to controll people. Up to blue belt most people use the top part of the gi to wrap the arm, turn it behing the person to stop them bumping into you etc. But they don't use the pant leg to controll them when they try to roll to turtle or escape in any way.
Click to expand...

people underestimate the judoka ability to pin and ride u out; in my estimation the submission weakness is the transition, when switching position or after throwing u, or being swept or sweeping u the holes in the ground game are exposed.

but when they can get u down safely or the way they want, they can eff control, outposition and work you over well; an that is b4 considering if said judoka has legit ground skills.

people sleep on judokas cause of what the majority say; i used to train w/alot of competitive judoka and will never believe they are garbage on the ground, are they the most tech and well schooled..not in regards to the all round game. But they aren't victims down there either, acknowledge their skills and exp an stop underestimating the skill of the art.
 
from my experience, bb judokas have no guard, not much bottom game, but if they pass your guard, it's pretty over. very good base, so it's very difficult to sweet them, etc, etc.
 
hybrid of wrestlings top control and pins with explosive armlocks and chokes. just about sums up ne waza. throwing is the specialty of judoka but ne waza shouldnt be negelcted either
 
He competed in the olympics, didn't medal. I don't care if you think I'm full of it, but naming names is not cool, IMO. It was just training, not a fight. I'll freely admit the guy would have probably broken my neck if we were fighting for keeps. That said, his transitions were weak, he did give up his back too easily, and his choke defense was pretty crude. I would bet that these are pretty common problems among young judoka on the ground, particularly no gi, as their rules dictate that you:

1. Avoid getting pinned.
2. Don't let the guy turn you onto your back, as you can get pinned. This negates most back escapes.
3. No touching the face rule prevents a lot of chokes
4. Referee stands it up if you can avoid being choked for just a few seconds.

I'm not saying BJJ is better, they are just different. If anyone ever rolls with a judoka, though, I think back attacks are one of your best bets for winning.
 
Judo guys tend to have a narrow game that they are VERY good at. You gotta stop that first pass attempt, that first cross-knee pass. Then the game shifts to your BJJ game.

You can't underrate judo guys because their particular approach -- a short period of time in which they must succeed in passing and getting the tap -- means that they have a powerful, all-out attack guaranteed. Once they get to Kesa, you are in trouble.
 
Judokas can pin like a motherfucker. And I agree, you can definitely get in deep water if you allow them to get good control--at least the guys I've rolled with, it feels like they get you in a wicked pin, then the pin gets worse and worse until you are defenseless and ripe for the tap. Not very "flowy" as BJJ can be at times per se, but just give you a miserable time on bottom.
 
Czyivn said:
He competed in the olympics, didn't medal.
Click to expand...

Not many to choose between though. Rhadi Ferguson? Jimmy Pedro? Alex Ottiano? Rick Hawn? Brian Olsen? Am I getting close? :icon_chee

Actually, I agree that a lot of judoka will give up their backs, so if you can get them to turtle you've a good chance at getting a rear choke of some kind. As well, some judo black belts are very good on the ground (as in Nakamura rolling for 10 minutes with Roger Gracie and being held down but not subbed ... ie Gracie would have won in judo and tied in BJJ, how weird is that), some are really bad (as in one strip white belt in BJJ). You can't go by the belt.

Judo guys do tend to be strong, and for the same reason wrestlers are ... you have to be to compete. In theory its all technique, but if two guys are equal in technique strength makes a big difference. You're going to see more and more of this in BJJ too ... in fact the top guys already are reportedly damn strong.
 
My instructor is also a BB in Judo, so we get to learn all sorts of cool stuff. I agree with what has been said about them once they gain dominant position on top.....for the most part, you're just a along for the ride:D
 
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