Roger Gracie VS Gordan Ryan

Ok lets break it down. How would Roger deal with the leg meta game that Gordan brings. Roger is Roger and I'm not saying he cant do it at all. I would bet on Roger, just curious what approach he would take. Never seen him deal with this.

roger will likely keep low pressure and not let gordon elevate him. If gordon does somehow get into his entries, roger will stack him like vinny magalhayes. The heel hook is gordon's only chance at beating roger.
 
At no gi worlds if remember correctly some small dude double legged him and the single legged him from standing. Gaudio did a single leg on Gordon from dlr and swept him with a berimbolo when Gordon was trying to do something stupid.

He said on his Instagram before he even competed at No-Gi world's that he wasn't able to wrestle because his neck was hurt. That's why he was pulling guard every time.
 
Gordon is not toe to toe in the wrestling department with any high level wrestler, let alone Olympic, that’s ridiculous.

I've seen him say that he holds his own against D1 guys when he can threaten with submission.

Straight wrestling, no way, I doubt he would say that.
 
I've watched a couple of Roger's No-Gi matches after this thread.
Looks like he likes the front head lock from standing too.

Front headlock vs frontlock, I wonder who's is better?

Gordon seems like he's the faster starter and he'd go in with a strong game plan.

Could Roger slow him down like he did Buchecha without a Gi on?
 
Gordon seemed a lot faster at 88 at the adcc then at ultra heavyweight at the pans. Physically I would guesd Roger would have the advantage (btw he is actually surprisingly fast on the rare occasion he scrambles but plays a slow considerate game on purpose). Haven't rolled with either but it's not certain you will be a lot stronger at the same wieght from some stupid bodybuilding routine and ld50 steroid regimen than from a lifetime of hard as fuck rolling. I can imagine Roger getting leg locked (he posted a roll where badly outmatched Braulio caught him from inverted closed guard) but I would be who a schocked if Gordon overpowered him.
You’re one of the only people I’ve read allude to this but I also think Gordon looked better at 88/medium heavy than ultra heavy.

Still a beast though.

I’m from the era where you just can’t bet against Roger but Gordon would definitely have a chance.

It’s intwresting people are referencing the braulio nogi rolls with roger. As a random connection at a Gordon Ryan seminar I went to (before he won adcc) he was saying that Braulio was the best person he’d ever rolled with.
 
He said on his Instagram before he even competed at No-Gi world's that he wasn't able to wrestle because his neck was hurt. That's why he was pulling guard every time.
He wasn't pulling guard everytime. He got double leg by the smaller guy.
 
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I've watched a couple of Roger's No-Gi matches after this thread.
Looks like he likes the front head lock from standing too.

Front headlock vs frontlock, I wonder who's is better?

Gordon seems like he's the faster starter and he'd go in with a strong game plan.

Could Roger slow him down like he did Buchecha without a Gi on?
You’re making me want to rewatch Roger’s 2005 run.

Gordon won his adcc finals match with a front headlock on the feet and basically just never let go until he got the tap on the floor. But interesting guy he doesn’t use it that much while passing the guard even though he’s had the perfect body type for it.

The biggest Roger moments I remember are the rear naked chokes over jacare and xande, the armbar on telles, and the Achilles lock on aoki. Beastly performance.
 
Could Roger slow him down like he did Buchecha without a Gi on?
Either Gordon would fight light at say his adcc weight and then Roger would have a weight and huge strength advantage or Gordon comes in ultra heavy and he won't have a significant speed advantage. Buchecha is both super huge and damn fast and agile but very few huge guys are like that.
 
Gordon has only been training like 7years at this point and I think No-Gi depends more on athletesim than Gi.

He is close to anyone in the sport physically, excluding nobody. He wouldn't have had the rise he's had without it.

I agree with almost all of your posts but I'm not sure I'm totally on board with this. I would never say Ryan isn't a good athlete but his style is based heavily on not needing to be athletic. Obviously he's strong but he's not terribly fast or explosive. I think he could hang with Buchecha and probably beat him but for example one of my friends that hates no-gi said he liked watching Ryan back in 2016 because he "passed methodical like a gi guy."

I've been lucky to roll with Ryan a few times and he's insisted that his game is based on technique and most of his best performances are him out techniquing people. He would stay on the mat for 60-90 minutes at a time and keep the same pace.

He has razor sharp timing and clean technique but he doesn't really have a game based on either out-pacing or our-scrambling other people. He rarely gets into scrambles with opponents or and almost never gets into situations where he has to out-hustle anybody.

The closest he gets to forcing scrambles are the occasional rolling kimura or rolling g-tine/darce/'conda series and even then he has mostly moved away from doing those.

Either Gordon would fight light at say his adcc weight and then Roger would have a weight and huge strength advantage or Gordon comes in ultra heavy and he won't have a significant speed advantage. Buchecha is both super huge and damn fast and agile but very few huge guys are like that.

Buchecha is definitely one of a kind. I'd like to see him vs Roger or Ryan without the gi.
 
You’re one of the only people I’ve read allude to this but I also think Gordon looked better at 88/medium heavy than ultra heavy.
It's a trade-off between size and strength and speed.
 
He wasn't pulling guard everytime. He got double leg by the smaller guy who.

It was a guy named Randeberg. You can see he was telegraphing the opening guard pull and the guy timed it, Gordons hips were dropping back as the guy shot. He announced that he wouldn't be wrestling beforehand. I don't think this speaks to his wrestling level, it didn't seem like he was taking the guy too serious. He did pull guard on the guy probably 10 times after the guy caught him off guard the first time.

He ended up 12-2 before tapping him.
 
It was a guy named Randeberg. You can see he was telegraphing the opening guard pull and the guy timed it, Gordons hips were dropping back as the guy shot. He announced that he wouldn't be wrestling beforehand. I don't think this speaks to his wrestling level, it didn't seem like he was taking the guy too serious. He did pull guard on the guy probably 10 times after the guy caught him off guard the first time.

He ended up 12-2 before tapping him.
I actually do remember him on Instagram saying before the tournament that he wouldn’t be wrestling much because of a neck injury I think?
 
I agree with almost all of your posts but I'm not sure I'm totally on board with this. I would never say Ryan isn't a good athlete but his style is based heavily on not needing to be athletic. Obviously he's strong but he's not terribly fast or explosive. I think he could hang with Buchecha and probably beat him but for example one of my friends that hates no-gi said he liked watching Ryan back in 2016 because he "passed methodical like a gi guy."

I've been lucky to roll with Ryan a few times and he's insisted that his game is based on technique and most of his best performances are him out techniquing people. He would stay on the mat for 60-90 minutes at a time and keep the same pace.

He has razor sharp timing and clean technique but he doesn't really have a game based on either out-pacing or our-scrambling other people. He rarely gets into scrambles with opponents or and almost never gets into situations where he has to out-hustle anybody.

The closest he gets to forcing scrambles are the occasional rolling kimura or rolling g-tine/darce/'conda series and even then he has mostly moved away from doing those.

I know he's super technical, that is why I'm a fan, but I think it requires both to get to his level, especially as fast as he did. A guy going to arguably #1 in a heavily contact sport in 7 years and being "not even close" to other top competitors physically falls somewhere between highly unlikely and impossible to me. I believe Gordon has physical gifts that made him rise at Renzo's then made him rise on the competition circuit. Not trying to discount his technique or work ethic, it just takes an "aligning of the stars" to do what he's done. He needed it all IMO.

I love his passing!

And the feelings mutual about your posts!
 
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I agree with almost all of your posts but I'm not sure I'm totally on board with this. I would never say Ryan isn't a good athlete but his style is based heavily on not needing to be athletic. Obviously he's strong but he's not terribly fast or explosive. I think he could hang with Buchecha and probably beat him but for example one of my friends that hates no-gi said he liked watching Ryan back in 2016 because he "passed methodical like a gi guy."

I've been lucky to roll with Ryan a few times and he's insisted that his game is based on technique and most of his best performances are him out techniquing people. He would stay on the mat for 60-90 minutes at a time and keep the same pace.

He has razor sharp timing and clean technique but he doesn't really have a game based on either out-pacing or our-scrambling other people. He rarely gets into scrambles with opponents or and almost never gets into situations where he has to out-hustle anybody.

The closest he gets to forcing scrambles are the occasional rolling kimura or rolling g-tine/darce/'conda series and even then he has mostly moved away from doing those.



Buchecha is definitely one of a kind. I'd like to see him vs Roger or Ryan without the gi.

100% agree, I’ve never seen Gordon getting into scrambles wars
 
Asked about entering a D1 Open tournament Gordon said "under wrestling rules I'll lose for sure. Takedowns would be competitive but I'd lose. But with submission danger I get the better of most D1 guys"

How long has he been focusing on wrestling for? Since the Lo match?

Even if we don't see it often,I think he can scramble fine.
He's the total package, I think he will become very dominant in a year or 2 if he sticks around. He should be noticably better in that time frame- that's 10-20% of his training time. People won't even be able to stall him out.

These guys who make Gordon look like a scrub physically should definitely enter wrestling tournaments. It'd round out their game and probably give them exposure to a larger audience when they start beating very good wrestlers.
 
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100% agree, I’ve never seen Gordon getting into scrambles wars
Totally. Not saying people on F12 do it but I think no-gi allowing for more movement combined with many of the great no-gi players being good at fast transitions and scrambles make some casual no-gi watchers think it's sort of a necessity. Also Gordon has teammates like Garry Tonon that are known for hustles and scrambles.

Gordon's no-gi style (excluding the leg entanglements) reminds me much more of Cobrinha, Lepri, and JT. Those guys are very methodical and pressure heavy. They also will use kimuras or the 'triple threat' head hunting style to pass but they rarely somersault with them like how Andre or Rafa do.

I've been posting a lot of pro-Gordon content here recently and it's surprised me. I dislike most of what he does on social media and I think a lot of the crown stuff is cringey. But I love that he's making a calm and measured game work at the highest levels of no-gi.
 
Totally. Not saying people on F12 do it but I think no-gi allowing for more movement combined with many of the great no-gi players being good at fast transitions and scrambles make some casual no-gi watchers think it's sort of a necessity. Also Gordon has teammates like Garry Tonon that are known for hustles and scrambles.

Gordon's no-gi style (excluding the leg entanglements) reminds me much more of Cobrinha, Lepri, and JT. Those guys are very methodical and pressure heavy. They also will use kimuras or the 'triple threat' head hunting style to pass but they rarely somersault with them like how Andre or Rafa do.

I've been posting a lot of pro-Gordon content here recently and it's surprised me. I dislike most of what he does on social media and I think a lot of the crown stuff is cringey. But I love that he's making a calm and measured game work at the highest levels of no-gi.

He almost plays a Gi style No-Gi outside of his the leg entanglements.

Not really that surprising since Danaher teaches a majority Gi classes, he definitely has a heavy Gi influence. I've seen him say Danaher teaches Gi better even than No-Gi
 
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I know he's super technical, that is why I'm a fan, but I think it requires both to get to his level, especially as fast as he did. A guy going to arguably #1 in a heavily contact sport in 7 years and being "not even close" to other top competitors physically falls somewhere between highly unlikely and impossible to me. I believe Gordon has physical gifts that made him rise at Renzo's then made him rise on the competition circuit. Not trying to discount his technique or work ethic, it just takes an "aligning of the stars" to do what he's done. He needed it all IMO.

I love his passing!

And the feelings mutual about your posts!
I dunno man, I met him as a blue belt and saw him roll and he was not especially athletic. He listened to absolutely everything Tonon told him, though, which is rare for a scrawny blue belt teen.

I really think he has been technique first the entire way and is adding in all this physical training now that he's hit the level where that's necessary.
 
He almost plays a Gi style No-Gi outside of his the leg entanglements.

Not really that surprising since Danaher teaches a majority Gi classes, he definitely has a heavy Gi influence. I've seen him say Danaher teaches Gi better even than No-Gi
Was that before or after Danaher announced he'd be doing a gi set of DVDs, too?

Just sayin'.

Also, it's pretty clear he idolizes Danaher. I'm more curious about what the average Renzo student says.
 
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