Schaub and Sonnon have never boxed or trained boxing specifically. I have. That's my credentials. That said, fuck credentials. They just don't know what they're talking about. It's obvious to anyone that does. Put them in a room with boxing journalists and coaches and they're clearly out of their depth. The fact that you're trying to defend them tells me you either don't know what you're talking about, or you have an agenda that is clouding your otherwise better judgement.
Rogan Doesn't Think Floyd Mayweather/Tenshin Nasukawa Fight Was Fixed
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Reported.
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This is a long term plan to make a ton of money. Beat 3 guys easily. Just smashing them. Then losing to another when he has -1300 odds. The Japanese are all about it. It will be the tenshin rematch
Looks staged to me as well.
After the first knocked down, which was partly a trip (feet overlapping) and a left hook glancing to the top of Tenshins head (Floyds follow up 2nd punch, right hook, missed), Tenshin goes down, flops, seems “quite hurt” but then is back on his feet in about 13 or so secs, all alert bouncing on his toes, ducks Floyds attack, and is zinging a crisp combo towards Floyd. That just doesn’t look consistent to the behaviour of a dazed fighter. More like Rocky Balboa vs his many nemesises than any of the boxing chicken dances some ppl have posted as proofs.
Edit: all the boxers doing the chicken dance, like zab juda and trevor berbick, never recovered after the dance, so why would people arguing that it’s a real fight show those dances when the scenario is different from Tenshins? Tenshins is more align to Rocky Balbao’s tumbling around.
After the first knocked down, which was partly a trip (feet overlapping) and a left hook glancing to the top of Tenshins head (Floyds follow up 2nd punch, right hook, missed), Tenshin goes down, flops, seems “quite hurt” but then is back on his feet in about 13 or so secs, all alert bouncing on his toes, ducks Floyds attack, and is zinging a crisp combo towards Floyd. That just doesn’t look consistent to the behaviour of a dazed fighter. More like Rocky Balboa vs his many nemesises than any of the boxing chicken dances some ppl have posted as proofs.
Edit: all the boxers doing the chicken dance, like zab juda and trevor berbick, never recovered after the dance, so why would people arguing that it’s a real fight show those dances when the scenario is different from Tenshins? Tenshins is more align to Rocky Balbao’s tumbling around.
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Not Helwani. He is in the camp that believes it’s real.
But other guys who believe it’s staged are Alan Jouban, Ben Askren, and Robert Garcia (boxing trainer). And then of course Rory MacDonald who basically is perplexed at why any pro would think this “fight” is real. Then you have Brendan Schaub and Chael Sonnen. Peopel will call the latter 2 guys trolls, but I actually think Sonnen did a good analysis.
Guess the only way we will truly know if this fight is real or staged is for some hacker to break into the people involved and get their emails, texts, documents, etc, and definitively prove it... I’m in the camp that this was a staged bout.
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I recently rewatched Brock vs Cain and am convinced it was fixed. The way Lesner pirouettes around the cage it's obvious he was over selling it big time.
Never seen someone react like that to being hit before, shits suspicious af!!
See how stupid that sounds? It also makes about as much sense as Rizen fixing a fight featuring there golden boy to go down quickly and in embarrassing fashion to an old retired Boxer who already had every advantage in his favor.
The kid crying his eyes out while looking absolutely devestated after was also part of him and Rizen making sure to sell it just like Dana pretending to be upset when putting the belt on Cain. All of these guys deserve oscars for these excellent performances.
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Pride was fake too
Just a few quick points to some people in this thread.
1) Don’t be hyperbolic with the weight difference. On fight night Tenshin was137 lbs (he just cuts water weight to 125). And Floyd was listed at 147, but could likely come in at about 155 or so. Thus the weight difference is more likely 10-20 lbs,,,, Not 30 lbs as some have said.
2) the counter left that some have said Tenshin landed on Floyd (thus pissed Floyd off and therefore he went into kill mode thus chased down Tenshin) did not land. Some one posted a gif of that missed punch. And so the theory that Floyd thought it was a friendly until Tenshin landed that punch is not correct.
1) Don’t be hyperbolic with the weight difference. On fight night Tenshin was137 lbs (he just cuts water weight to 125). And Floyd was listed at 147, but could likely come in at about 155 or so. Thus the weight difference is more likely 10-20 lbs,,,, Not 30 lbs as some have said.
2) the counter left that some have said Tenshin landed on Floyd (thus pissed Floyd off and therefore he went into kill mode thus chased down Tenshin) did not land. Some one posted a gif of that missed punch. And so the theory that Floyd thought it was a friendly until Tenshin landed that punch is not correct.
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If that's the quality of argument that is supposed to convince those who have doubts, then I rest my case.
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How so? The whole case for it being a fix is based on the knockdowns "looking weird" much like Brocks one of a kind and unusual reaction to the Cain shot.
Having seen probably 6 thousand Boxing matches and a couple thousand MMA fights those knockdowns were nothing I haven't seen before and didn't strike me as suspicious. I'm willing to bet had it been anyone other than Floyd this wouldn't even be a debate.
The fact that no one can explain what Rizen could have possibly gained from embarrassing there young up and coming star really doesn't help your case either.
It's far more like if the fix was in Floyd would have been going down or it would have atleast looked competitive and lasted a couple rounds. Tenshin and Rizen had nothing to gain from the fight playing out the way it did and I highly doubt Floyd needed the fight to be rigged to beat a 20 year old Kickboxer in a Boxing match.
It's fucking absurd this is even a topic let alone people calling others with an opposing view blind, stupid, uneducated or whatever else.
Rizen probably is pretty happy with all the attention this "fixed" bs has garnered though so I guess thats an unexpected bonus for them and Tenshin.
To me it looked like both of them, Tenshin and Floyd, were pulling their punches, hence;
1) that’s why Floyds left hooks only glanced or were just arm punches and yet Tenshin went tumbling down. The 2nd knocked down with the right hook or uppercut looked legit though. Albeit that could have been accidental and Floyd didn’t mean to catch him that well. But hey that’s part of the act. Even in WWE occasionally a choreographed punch connects too well for comfort.
2) even Tenshins punches are pulled or not connecting, like the straight left that people thought he landed, but it was a miss, and yet Floyds head flinched/snapped(?) quite a bit.
And Tenshins flailing combos just before the 3rd knocked down; Punching air all around Floyd while Floyd literally just stood there.
And those body shot combos Tenshin landed were weak, especially that one left body when Floyd basically just covered up and let Tenshin get a free one in.
To me both guys were acting trying to make it look real enough, but at the same time not to hurt one another.
Edit: The thrown towel adds more drama to it as well.
1) that’s why Floyds left hooks only glanced or were just arm punches and yet Tenshin went tumbling down. The 2nd knocked down with the right hook or uppercut looked legit though. Albeit that could have been accidental and Floyd didn’t mean to catch him that well. But hey that’s part of the act. Even in WWE occasionally a choreographed punch connects too well for comfort.
2) even Tenshins punches are pulled or not connecting, like the straight left that people thought he landed, but it was a miss, and yet Floyds head flinched/snapped(?) quite a bit.
And Tenshins flailing combos just before the 3rd knocked down; Punching air all around Floyd while Floyd literally just stood there.
And those body shot combos Tenshin landed were weak, especially that one left body when Floyd basically just covered up and let Tenshin get a free one in.
To me both guys were acting trying to make it look real enough, but at the same time not to hurt one another.
Edit: The thrown towel adds more drama to it as well.
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You should learn to listen to people that disagree with you rather than assume you already know everything they have to say.
Here is a reasonable take on the issue, which disagrees with yours. I posted this earlier. You might disagree, he might be wrong, and that's fine, but it is at least an intelligently thought out response and not a strawman.
My first point was to say that people who were calling those who claim this was a fix "complete morons" are being uncharitable, and ridiculous. And vice versa.
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That's fair and I'll take a look but from everything I've read the whole argument has been based on the knockdowns looking "weird" which if you've seen enough fights you would know there's really no such thing and guys have all sorts of strange reactions when they get rocked hence my exaggerated Lesner Cain example, not really a strawman although I'll admit I didn't go to the trouble of making a Youtube video about it cause I don't like the sound of my own voice or crave attention enough to do that.
I do agree about the pointless name calling though, kind of makes the possibility of an intelligent debate impossible.
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Kay, for the record I always listen to the other side of an argument so I'm not sure where you're coming from with your first line as I don't believe I was in any way hostile or dismissive in my responses. (With the exception of the somewhat condescending Youtube comment).
I watched the video and he proved nothing and never offered a reason for what Rizen would gain from this. I was intrigued by his take on the first knockdown though having a trip involved but as he says himself you can't really tell from the angle in the video and Tenshin definitely got caught behind the ear getting rocked for the first time in his career so his reaction is understandable as it was a new experience for him.
The second knockdown which was clearly the most brutal and clean shot of the fight he's trying to make a JFK assassination "up and to the right" style argument which is clearly wrong cause while Tenshin did have his head turned the punch doesn't land behind the ear as he claims in the video but under the chin forcing his head to straighten up before snapping back, perfectly normal reaction.
The last knockdown he lost all credibility with me saying he's never seen a fighter losing there equalibrium from a shot behind the ear ( which is a KO spot, the temple is what takes away the equalibrium) fall and then try to get back up only to fall backdown again. This has happened in the exact same fashion it did with Tenshin literally 1000's of times. Watch a Boxing KO's video on Youtube and you will see it happen a few times in a 10 minute highlight reel. Or for an MMA example watch GSP Serra or Kongo Berry (off the top of my head).
This guy IMO hasn't been watching combate sports for long, (based on him confusing a temple shot with a behind the ear shot and his examples being very recent fights) if he seriously though the 2nd and esecially 3rd knockdown were in anyway unusual or suspicious looking, the third being the worst possible example of an unusual reaction.
I'm pretty much positive the fight was legit based on the fact theres no upside for anyone to stage it in that fashion and I'm also fairly confident had this fight taken place under the banner of the UFC nobody would question it.
This fixed shit comes up with almost every high profile fight outside the UFC and it's tiresome.
Him saying he's getting dropped by Floyd who isn't known for his punching power is also blatantly wrong and indicates a lack of knowledge of Floyds career. Tenshin weighed 137, when Floyd was fighting guys at that weight he was destroying them without also having a 10 pound weight advantage. Floyd was a big puncher before his hands became brittle and he changed his approach. Look at what he did to Gatti and Corrales for example.
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What stands out to me, is how quickly the fight was put together. Usually, Mayweather would have what feels like fucking years building up to the fight yet for this one, it was announced and then it happened, seemed like mere weeks in between. I genuinely doubt someone with Floyd's ego and reputation to protect would agree to an actual boxing match versus an unknown quantity in some respects, in fucking Japan where he's the outsider, on such short notice. Its an enormous risk, and not one someone like Floyd would take. He would also want 6-10months of fucking hype, publicity and build-up.
That was a fully agreed, mutual exhibition bout for entertainment purposes only with the outcome planned as Floyd stops Tenshin.
That was a fully agreed, mutual exhibition bout for entertainment purposes only with the outcome planned as Floyd stops Tenshin.
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If that was a fix nobody told Mayweather because he fucking jacked him. The punches were real, no if, ands, or buts.
