Robots Have Taken More Then 5 Million Jobs World Wide Just The Beginning

We essentially arguing the same thing; Physicians will still be needed and not completely replaced but APM will reduce their roles.

But a physician has to currently tell you you have cancer and recommend course of action - right now no nurse, tech and AI can do that and it would require a shift in legislation for that to change.

And the nurses and tech limitation isn't based on knowledge as much as it is on legal licensing. a NP can tell me about benzos, as much as any doctor but they legally can not prescribe them to me.

The licensing limitation is a function of knowledge. And you wouldn't need a licensing change for anything to change. 1 doctor overseeing 20 nurses and PA's. The nurses and PA's conduct the face to face patient contact, the doctor manages them from a central location interpreting the data that they gather through technology. Maybe you spend more time in front of a specialist, assuming that you need one. I'm sure you already know about how technology is killing radiologists since anyone anywhere can read the report, there's less need to keep a team of radiologists in house. I'd bet money the radiologists never saw it coming.

And the idea that physicians must be completely eliminated before we can say that the impact would be significant belies history. The U.S. is still one of the largest manufacturers in the world we just use far fewer people to do it.
 
Corporations were more powerful back in the gilded age and still anti-trust laws, worker rights and enviromental regulations kept increasing, how does that works?

What rights do workers have when the companies replace them with robotics? They no longer become workers.

Greece has a 25% unemployment rate -what is their voting power doing to alleviate the problem?
 
What rights do workers have when the companies replace them with robotics? They no longer become workers.

Greece has a 25% unemployment rate -what is their voting power doing to alleviate the problem?

Greek problems arent caused by corporations becoming too powerful, they are caused by corruption and reckless spending.
 
The licensing limitation is a function of knowledge. And you wouldn't need a licensing change for anything to change. 1 doctor overseeing 20 nurses and PA's. The nurses and PA's conduct the face to face patient contact, the doctor manages them from a central location interpreting the data that they gather through technology. Maybe you spend more time in front of a specialist, assuming that you need one. I'm sure you already know about how technology is killing radiologists since anyone anywhere can read the report, there's less need to keep a team of radiologists in house. I'd bet money the radiologists never saw it coming.

And the idea that physicians must be completely eliminated before we can say that the impact would be significant belies history. The U.S. is still one of the largest manufacturers in the world we just use far fewer people to do it.

Limitations is based on licensing as it would be much more cost effective for a NP to administering opiates and benzos but they can't because they are not licensed to do so, not because they do not have the knowledge on it.

Again, you're piggybacking off a conversation me and another poster had on the first white collar industry to undergo the most rapid role change via Robotics. You interjected your thoughts which are not related to the core of what me and him are discussing.
 
Greek problems arent caused by corporations becoming too powerful, they are caused by corruption and reckless spending.

You dont see a correlation between corruption in government and hindering the influence of the populist vote? Corporations buy and sell governments all the time despite what the voters want.
 
You dont see a correlation between corruption in government and hindering the influence of the populist vote? Corporations buy and sell governments all the time despite what the voters want.
Are you saying that the Greek government was most likely bought off buy big corporations and those influences are why they are in the situation they're in?
 
You dont see a correlation between corruption in government and hindering the influence of the populist vote? Corporations buy and sell governments all the time despite what the voters want.

Greeks didnt voted for corporatists, they voted for socialists who were unable or unwilling to address the dire situation of Greece.

There is a popular saying in Mexico "Everyone gets the government it deserves".
 
Are you saying that the Greek government was most likely bought off buy big corporations and those influences are why they are in the situation they're in?

no i am saying in situations of extreme social peril, the voting public still takes a back seat to government corruption - undermining the notion that the public vote is the ultimate weapon against unwanted policy,
 
Greeks didnt voted for corporatists, they voted for socialists who were unable or unwilling to address the dire situation of Greece.

There is a popular saying in Mexico "Everyone gets the government it deserves".

and i am saying that exact same scenario could happen in this circumstance with the future United States.

I mean there is already huge wealth discrepancies among the masses without the mass implementation of AI causing a spike in UE - yet, in a voting year the next president elect will not do a thing to remedy it.
 
Limitations is based on licensing as it would be much more cost effective for a NP to administering opiates and benzos but they can't because they are not licensed to do so, not because they do not have the knowledge on it.

Again, you're piggybacking off a conversation me and another poster had on the first white collar industry to undergo the most rapid role change via Robotics. You interjected your thoughts which are not related to the core of what me and him are discussing.

First, I'm not piggybacking off that conversation. I was making a completely different point. You and he were discussing something. During my reading, I felt that you were underestimating the impact of technology in your analysis. It's not related to the core of that discussion, it's a separate point altogether.

And as for your NP example - so what? I'm speaking across the entire range of services. There will always be areas where MD's will remain central. But my point is that there will be fewer MD's covering those areas.

Let me use a law parallel since it might easier for you to accept it from a different industry. You can't represent someone in court unless you're a lawyer. You can't dispense legal advice unless you're a lawyer. Yet companies like LegalZoom and others make a killing in the legal field by addressing those areas of the industry which fall under general knowledge. You buy a will of LegalZoom is a perfectly legal and enforceable document even though no lawyer advised you on it. Does that eliminate lawyers? Of course not, no one with a valuable estate is going to rely on some basic internet will. Or rely on a random document when they're planning an IPO. Lawyers aren't going anywhere.

But the presence of that technical alternative reduces the demand for lawyers and their income. Now, you don't have to pay a lawyer unless it's for something significant.

Similarly, as technology progresses, hospitals and providers won't have to pay for doctors to deal with everything. They can/will pay nurses, PA's and NP's to do those things and put them under the supervision of a single doctor. Less doctors. More of the cheap guys. As long as the MD is still signing off there's no problem.

This encroachment has been happening for years. Random anecdote - this has been an incendiary point in my house for years. My parents have watched it happen for years and complained every step of the way. Year after year, the hospitals are hiring more non-MD's and asking the MD's to supervise. Shortsighted doctors think this means more freedom for them. It doesn't, it means that hospitals are figuring out how to replace large chunks of them with lesser trained personnel.
 
Get them in fast food asap. The orders should be push button or through an app...credit card and Cash Machines like self check out.
Cut the people who work there in half
 
First, I'm not piggybacking off that conversation. I was making a completely different point. You and he were discussing something. During my reading, I felt that you were underestimating the impact of technology in your analysis. It's not related to the core of that discussion, it's a separate point altogether.

And as for your NP example - so what? I'm speaking across the entire range of services. There will always be areas where MD's will remain central. But my point is that there will be fewer MD's covering those areas.

Let me use a law parallel since it might easier for you to accept it from a different industry. You can't represent someone in court unless you're a lawyer. You can't dispense legal advice unless you're a lawyer. Yet companies like LegalZoom and others make a killing in the legal field by addressing those areas of the industry which fall under general knowledge. You buy a will of LegalZoom is a perfectly legal and enforceable document even though no lawyer advised you on it. Does that eliminate lawyers? Of course not, no one with a valuable estate is going to rely on some basic internet will. Or rely on a random document when they're planning an IPO. Lawyers aren't going anywhere.

But the presence of that technical alternative reduces the demand for lawyers and their income. Now, you don't have to pay a lawyer unless it's for something significant.

Similarly, as technology progresses, hospitals and providers won't have to pay for doctors to deal with everything. They can/will pay nurses, PA's and NP's to do those things and put them under the supervision of a single doctor. Less doctors. More of the cheap guys. As long as the MD is still signing off there's no problem.

This encroachment has been happening for years. Random anecdote - this has been an incendiary point in my house for years. My parents have watched it happen for years and complained every step of the way. Year after year, the hospitals are hiring more non-MD's and asking the MD's to supervise. Shortsighted doctors think this means more freedom for them. It doesn't, it means that hospitals are figuring out how to replace large chunks of them with lesser trained personnel.

Again i am not arguing with the notion of AI reducing the role of doctors; i just stated that they will not be all replaced and it will not be the first sector to be completely automized.

My fiancee is a dermatologist; she can have a new scanning technology that diagnosis any condition in near real time; however, she will still be the one to have to give the diagnosis. As well as in surgery, she will still have to be the supervising physician on site - even if she does not touch a single instrument.

Her job role may change, but the job will not be eliminated - unless legislation passes any of those core roles onto autonomous beings or people who are not licensed to do so.

If anything, you're talking more of a shift in the family health / GP sector. In which the need of doctor involvement is being reduced by NP's (not sure how it works in Colorado) but in Ontario public health has set up 5 practices that is using what you're suggesting on a trail run with very mixed results.
 
Again i am not arguing with the notion of AI reducing the role of doctors; i just stated that they will not be all replaced and it will not be the first sector to be completely automized.

My fiancee is a dermatologist; she can have a new scanning technology that diagnosis any condition in near real time; however, she will still be the one to have to give the diagnosis. As well as in surgery, she will still have to be the supervising physician on site - even if she does not touch a single instrument.

Her job role may change, but the job will not be eliminated - unless legislation passes any of those core roles onto autonomous beings or people who are not licensed to do so.

If anything, you're talking more of a shift in the family health / GP sector. In which the need of doctor involvement is being reduced by NP's (not sure how it works in Colorado) but in Ontario public health has set up 5 practices that is using what you're suggesting on a trail run with very mixed results.

Goodness gracious. I NEVER said that all doctors will be replaced. I NEVER said that they would be the first sector fully automized. In fact, I NEVER said any industry would be completely automized.

And no, I'm talking about shifts at the hospital level, not specific practice areas. Let's use your fiancée for an example. Where a dermatologist might have spent 20 minutes diagnosing a patient, that meant 3 patients per hour. But if technology shortens that time to 12 minutes then it's 5 patients per hour. Assuming an 8 hour shift, your dermatologist will go from 24 patients to 40 patients in the same time frame. A hospital, which knows approximately how many people come in to see dermatologists (again technology), will reduce the dermatologists on staff accordingly. That means that instead of 8 derm's, the hospital only needs 5. The derm's will make less money because they are now competing for fewer job openings. As technology reduces the time needed to complete the physician only tasks, the productivity increases will allow the hospitals to cut the number of doctors.

In a parallel to this, hospitals are buying up practice groups and moving them in house. They're doing this because doctors on staff are cheaper and can be managed like regular employees. The technology has moved in such a way that power is shifting away from the physicians and most of them don't realize it because they've bought into the idea that what they do is so special that tech couldn't replace it. They're mostly wrong. You don't need to replace a derm's specialized skills, you need to increase her productivity enough that you don't need a 2nd derm.

This is a bottom line problem. By controlling and limiting the amount of doctors needed to see X number of patients, hospitals strengthen their profit margin. They have every incentive to gradually shift doctors into standard employee roles and are doing so.
 
In the future computers will be so advanced human will have to plug into them to use them.

Humans and computers will be completely integrated.

Whether it be brain chips inside humans or robotic arms or other limbs, or nano technology humans and machines will eventually become integrated.
 
Goodness gracious. I NEVER said that all doctors will be replaced. I NEVER said that they would be the first sector fully automized. In fact, I NEVER said any industry would be completely automized.

And no, I'm talking about shifts at the hospital level, not specific practice areas. Let's use your fiancée for an example. Where a dermatologist might have spent 20 minutes diagnosing a patient, that meant 3 patients per hour. But if technology shortens that time to 12 minutes then it's 5 patients per hour. Assuming an 8 hour shift, your dermatologist will go from 24 patients to 40 patients in the same time frame. A hospital, which knows approximately how many people come in to see dermatologists (again technology), will reduce the dermatologists on staff accordingly. That means that instead of 8 derm's, the hospital only needs 5. The derm's will make less money because they are now competing for fewer job openings. As technology reduces the time needed to complete the physician only tasks, the productivity increases will allow the hospitals to cut the number of doctors.

In a parallel to this, hospitals are buying up practice groups and moving them in house. They're doing this because doctors on staff are cheaper and can be managed like regular employees. The technology has moved in such a way that power is shifting away from the physicians and most of them don't realize it because they've bought into the idea that what they do is so special that tech couldn't replace it. They're mostly wrong. You don't need to replace a derm's specialized skills, you need to increase her productivity enough that you don't need a 2nd derm.

This is a bottom line problem. By controlling and limiting the amount of doctors needed to see X number of patients, hospitals strengthen their profit margin. They have every incentive to gradually shift doctors into standard employee roles and are doing so.

You jumped in on a conversation about the totality of the industry and i told Kong it wouldn't happen nor would it be the first. - You decided to interject into that assuming i was underestimating the impact, i was not.

Everything else i have mentioned is about how, yes, the medical sector will be influenced by automation like any other service or tech based industry.
 
You jumped in on a conversation about the totality of the industry and i told Kong it wouldn't happen nor would it be the first. - You decided to interject into that assuming i was underestimating the impact, i was not.

Everything else i have mentioned is about how, yes, the medical sector will be influenced by automation like any other service or tech based industry.


Yeah but Judo what you don't get is robotics are being designed now to do the doctors jobs, like surgery.

I read a great article on some technology website about a machine that takes out brain tumors far better than any doctor could do.

This will be the future of medicine. Like it or not. Will doctors be around? Sure, but they won't be performing the. You of the surgery. Machines will do it to much higher degrees of success.
 
Yeah but Judo what you don't get is robotics are being designed now to do the doctors jobs, like surgery.

I read a great article on some technology website about a machine that takes out brain tumors far better than any doctor could do.

This will be the future of medicine. Like it or not. Will doctors be around? Sure, but they won't be performing the. You of the surgery. Machines will do it to much higher degrees of success.

Dude, half my grad work was done in robotics and nanotechnology; i am fully aware of their role in the future of various sectors; APM , AI and and Automation will have a great influence in the world of medicine...but like we were discussing, it wont be the first white collar job it replaces in the greatest number.
 
This is pretty interesting about Boston Dynamics Atlas robot much talked about technology that venture capitalists are running not walking to companies literally a day after the video was released showing how far Atlas has progressed in two years. This VC says we see the end of manual labor with in the next 15 to 20 years. He said no part of our life will not be effected by this change in our lives. He talked about how he is investing in companies that specificity looks into replacing people with robots in just a few years. He talked about how robots are already taking jobs from people at Amazon in their warehouses. He also mentioned about the social problems this creates but glosses over it. He did not provide any solutions just VC talk "meaning thinking about all the money he will make" investment. He is at the core of the problem I am talking about in this thread little or any interest in taking responsibility or solutions towards the job destruction that will come about do to this evolution.

The video is at the link.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/24/google-robot-is-the-end-of-manual-labor-vc.html
 
For all the work robots do, I have to be honest with everyone... Quality work from human hands surpasses the efficiency at the end of the day.
 
For all the work robots do, I have to be honest with everyone... Quality work from human hands surpasses the efficiency at the end of the day.
Not completely in many studies the reason why product quality is declined is not do to robots inefficiencies it is due to the quality of the manufacturing materials. Robots have proven to be superior in almost every aspect of manufacturing in automotive and in the areas where it has shown weakness robotics businesses are working quickly to fill these gaps.
 
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