Roberto Duran Infighting and Sensitivity

[Cyclone Mike]

Most of the fight nerds on here have probably already seen this video but I thought it was good. It highlights the infighting of Duran. It touches on a concept that I was introduced to when learning to clinch in Muay Thai, I'll call it body sensitivity. It's something that I've realized will be useful in infighting and I need to bring back my sensitivity but recalibrate it for different cues in boxing.

 

[Combat Squirrel]

Thanks. This is exactly why I think it's stupid how boxing fans today constantly complain about clinching.

It's pretty much the equivalent of MMA fans complaining about wrestlers, because their favorite fighter doesn't train TDD and sweeps.

 

[Discipulus]

I would love to talk in-fighting.

In my opinion, Duran was one of the very last "old school" in-fighters. His in-fighting was reminiscent of guys like Stanley Ketchel and Packey McFarland. There are a lot of little tricks broken down in Lee's video, but to me the overarching concept of Duran's approach is more important, and the way I see it, that concept is "control the center."

In every one of those sequences, Duran is snaking his arms inside Palomino's, pummeling like a wrestler would, but using the space created to throw punches rather than fishing for deep underhooks. Not only does he swim his arms inside of Palomino's, he flares his elbows and shoves Palomino's arms away to have access to that juicy, exposed center-line. Watching Duran is like watching a great in-fighter from decades before, but in color. It's great.

Lots of the same tricks here, in Dempsey-Sharkey.

 

[Discipulus]

Thanks. This is exactly why I think it's stupid how boxing fans today constantly complain about clinching.

It's pretty much the equivalent of MMA fans complaining about wrestlers, because their favorite fighter doesn't train TDD and sweeps.

To be fair, there's a difference between clinching, in-fighting, and holding. Holding is obnoxious and hard to watch. Clinching and in-fighting are fine, sometimes even great.

 

[Jaxxstatic]

To be fair, there's a difference between clinching, in-fighting, and holding. Holding is obnoxious and hard to watch. Clinching and in-fighting are fine, sometimes even great.

Also...
Clinching and in-fighting are both legal.
Holding is not.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Also...
Clinching and in-fighting are both legal.
Holding is not.

What is the difference between holding and clinching? And are you allowed to punch from the clinch in boxing?

If so, then why dont people just wrap up PBF when he goes into philly shell mode to keep him from spinning and countering and just wack him?

 

[Jaxxstatic]

What is the difference between holding and clinching? And are you allowed to punch from the clinch in boxing?

If so, then why dont people just wrap up PBF when he goes into philly shell mode to keep him from spinning and countering and just wack him?

According to USAboxing, these are their definitions:

Infighting = Boxing closer to an opponent than at arm

 

[Jaxxstatic]

Here's imo a really good simple breakdown of Floyd's in-fighting:

[YT]v2wW7zqH87Y[/YT]

and here's more on is "Philly-shell/Crab/Michigan-style" defense:

[YT]e1nXvwXFSUg[/YT]

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Here's imo a really good simple breakdown of Floyd's in-fighting:

[YT]v2wW7zqH87Y[/YT]

and here's more on is "Philly-shell/Crab/Michigan-style" defense:

[YT]e1nXvwXFSUg[/YT]

But are you allowed to punch while wrapped up? What I see from PBF is he gets a clinch just briefly, then breaks immediately to strike. I have never really seen anyone successful at wrapping up PBF and then hitting him, when they break.

Are there any good clinch fighters in boxing currently besides PBF if you can call him that? And are you allowed to punch while clinching?

Like I wanna see someone get PBF to the ropes and then start manipulating his head, and stiffing him with a forearm and that will make it harder to spin in the philly shell. Then someone may be able to wack him.

 

[Sinister]

You can fight in a clinch, what you cannot do is perpetually impede another fighter's arms in order to do it. Such as wrapping one arm up in a lock, then hitting with the other. You used to be able to do that in earlier days, but not in modern rules. But you can clinch, break, hit, re-clinch, etc.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

You can fight in a clinch, what you cannot do is perpetually impede another fighter's arms in order to do it. Such as wrapping one arm up in a lock, then hitting with the other. You used to be able to do that in earlier days, but not in modern rules. But you can clinch, break, hit, re-clinch, etc.

Then are you allowed to do a neck clinch like in Muay Thai? Or can you bear hug from behind or the side and then throw hooks to the front of the face?

 

[Sinister]

Are you being serious?

 

[Jaxxstatic]

Watch any of Hopkins' fights to see great in-fighting and clinching
More than that, though, watch how he always knows where the ref is and what he can get away with that the ref can't see. He'll tie guys up on the ref's blind side and get away with rabbit punches that take a toll.
I think there's a video or Ring magazine article where he teaches you how to do it, too...I can't remember where I saw/read it

 

[Combat Squirrel]

On my comments from the first page:

Yes, holding and infighting are different things. My point is that holding wouldn't be so easy for guys like Wlad and Floyd if their opponents would learn the skills shown in the video.

MMA analogy again: LnP is not GnP, but if you don't want to get LnP'd, you should learn TDD and sweeps. But instead, fighters choose to keep losing and whine about it on twitter.

 

[clashnat]

My point is that holding wouldn't be so easy for guys like Wlad and Floyd if their opponents would learn the skills shown in the video.

That's easy to say.

This is boxing. You don't just watch a video and know it all.

 

[Combat Squirrel]

That's easy to say.

This is boxing. You don't just watch a video and know it all.

They are pro fighters. They spend thousands of hours in the gym.

 

[PivotPunch]

The probelm is that Wlad ties you up so well that you have to do something illegal under modern boxing rules to hit him in the clinch. On top of that you need strength or size and preferably both.

But his opponents should fight dirty cause Wlad does as well Chambers wrestled him and Samuel Peter bullied him almost to a stoppage and if you can't do that at least do a Haye and drop to the floor instead of letting him lean on you and tire you out.

But that's why Tyson Fury will give him hell and possibly beat him not only is he taller than Wlad, can fight on the outside with a good jab and decent footwork AND switch southpaw and fight well out of both stances but once Wlad clinches which he always does he's up close with a guy bigger than him who is strong,the best inside fighter at HW today and is dirty as fuck when he needs to as shown in the Cunningham fight.

Peoiple call em crazy for giving Fury a chance but I consider everyone crazy who doesn't see why Wlad is facing his toughest opponent since his first fight with Peter.

And Maidana did give Floyd trouble up close so it's not like no one ever tried and in the Cotto and Castillo fights he had trouble tying the other guy up.

But the issue with Floyd is that he isn't as fragile as Wlad and that Floyd is a pretty good inside fighter himself even if he didn't clinch you can probably count the boxers at his weight who would beat him on the inside on one hand

 

[clashnat]

They are pro fighters

... and human beings too, no machines.

They spend thousands of hours in the gym.

And simultaneously, what do Floyd and Wladimir do? Spend time at McDonalds?

 

[Combat Squirrel]

... and human beings too, no machines.

So are Duran, Klitschko and Floyd.

And simultaneously, what do Floyd and Wladimir do? Spend time at McDonalds?

Based on their fights and training videos, I would guess they spend their time with coaches who teach them the technique, tactics and strategy of boxing and not with a bunch of yes-men who affirm them in their tough guy warrior mentality while they throw haymakers at a heavy bag.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Are you being serious?

Yes I am. I have seen boxing matches, and when I see someone hug their opponent they are trying to stall the action because they are losing. But is it legal to actually do that and hit from there, or do you get points deducted if you do it excessively? As for the neck, can you put a glove behind the neck and tug on it while you hit them