Robberies in Kickboxing and Muay Thai

Watched the Ilunga vs Vakhitov fight today and i think Ilunga won rounds 1, 3 and 5. Didn't expect that from Ilunga but i think he definitely got robbed.
 
ichibang said:
Who do you guys think is the fighter who got robbed most often in recent memories?

I nominate Massaro Glunder. The poor kid is on the wrong of so many close decisions and got robbed in every way possible from bullshit DQ to straight up robbery with no extra round.
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That DQ was real bad, the ref couldn't make his bias more obvious.
 
ichibang said:
Who do you guys think is the fighter who got robbed most often in recent memories?

I nominate Massaro Glunder. The poor kid is on the wrong of so many close decisions and got robbed in every way possible from bullshit DQ to straight up robbery with no extra round.
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He seems to manage his career quite recklessly compared to how good he is/could be.

Probably most his losses in recent years were avoidable. Dude needs someone close to him to tell him to take his time instead of jumping immediately in to every thing he can possibly do. I get it he's young and who wants to turn away money when offered but perhaps not the greatest decisions in the long(er) run losing and/or taking unnecessary beatings.

Like if you get damn near knocked out by an illegal shot or take a terrible low blow, take all the time you can, or do a Bonjasky, instead of resuming right away and throw the fight away for no reason. Also probably a good idea not go fight dudes in their home rings up in weight at a days notice.

Seems to mostly win when prepared and at his own weight.
 
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I think he is also a go-to guy in Mike's Gym when any promoter needs a short-notice fight, whether it is against p4p GOAT Saenchai under full Thai rule or being flown in to fight above his weight class in China/Japan.

Connection is really important for kickboxing gym and you want to be in good term with promoters.
 
Sure, and the family, a lot of kickboxing around. Just my sherlocking based on some his fights that the overall attitude seems to be very go after it, always. Little calmer at times maybe and I think he is champion material.
 
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Shadess said:
He seems to manage his career quite recklessly compared to how good he is/could be.

Probably most his losses in recent years were avoidable. Dude needs someone close to him to tell him to take his time instead of jumping immediately in to every thing he can possibly do. I get it he's young and who wants to turn away money when offered but perhaps not the greatest decisions in the long(er) run losing and/or taking unnecessary beatings.

Like if you get damn near knocked out by an illegal shot or take a terrible low blow, take all the time you can, or do a Bonjasky, instead of resuming right away and throw the fight away for no reason. Also probably a good idea not go fight dudes in their home rings up in weight at a days notice.

Seems to mostly win when prepared and at his own weight.
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Mike Passenier the most overrated Kickboxing coach in history.

Damn near ruined Kyshenko...
 
Much of the issue of stealing in muay thai fights and kickboxing has to do with cash betting.

The punters paje judges, side referee and fighters.

Fit organizations would be like WAKO and WMF overseeing and inhibiting this sort of thing.
 
eneck said:
Much of the issue of stealing in muay thai fights and kickboxing has to do with cash betting.

The punters paje judges, side referee and fighters.

Fit organizations would be like WAKO and WMF overseeing and inhibiting this sort of thing.
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God no, Ill take the gamblers over the Western Dojo senseis any days.
 
Snubnoze707 said:
Mike Passenier the most overrated Kickboxing coach in history.

Damn near ruined Kyshenko...
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I agree. Mike made Groenhart and Mes, but besides them, all his top fighters only came in a later stage of their career to Mike's because of Mike's connections.
Mike is the best guy to have for you to arrange fights, But many fighters he is coaching never reach their full potential.
Badr Hari for instance, before Mike, Badr was a fast, technical and explosive kickboxer. Untouchable, and could knock you out with hands and feet.
When he got with Mike's Gym, they pumped him up. and his style became more aggressive, Knock out, or get knocked out.
 
My friends against facts there are no arguments. Look at the photos today already exists graduation (tracks) in muaythai
 
eneck said:
My friends against facts there are no arguments. Look at the photos today already exists graduation (tracks) in muaythai
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If you haven't noticed yet, not only does nobody here care about your Muay Thai grading system shilling, they also don't respect it...
 
The answer was in the wrong tropic, sorry
Dude, I'm not here to get approval.
I am not, no frustrated in life who seeks the approval of others.
I am I am using the tropic as a way to disseminate information.

Snubnoze707 said:
If you haven't noticed yet, not only does nobody here care about your Muay Thai grading system shilling, they also don't respect it...
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The gamblers actually create an incentive for the judges to judge the fight correctly. The only times i've seen controversial decisions in Lumpinee and Rajadamnern were when the fight was really close and difficult to judge. I know i've been confused on some fights scoring, but i can't remember a single blatant robbery.

With WAKO, ISKA and those other organizations, judges basically have ZERO incentive to judge fights properly, or even to learn how to judge. I'm not entirely basing my argument on the fact that many fans online very often disagree with the ISKA (and other similar organisations) judging, but it is also strongly supported by the inconsistency of the judges score cards, they very often score rounds very differently. If they were good at scoring fights, their scorecards would be more or less similar most of the times.

Another huge point to take into consideration is the judges incentives to score fights in favour of their countryman. In thailand these things happen occasionally in minor stadiums like Bangla or Max Muay Thai, but very rarely in high stake fights at Lumpinee, Rajadamnern, Omnoi etc. Even the foreign fighters have thai gamblers betting on them, and thus have an incentive to judge the fight correctly, otherwise gamblers won't be happy. When ISKA (and similar organisations) judge fights in Europe, way to often the hometown fighter gets awarded the win, although he should have lost. There are many examples of thais getting robbed in france for example, and there are no consequences for the judges.

The "you can't win in thailand unless you win by KO" saying is a myth, probably created by Ramon Dekkers fans.
 
Kanka said:
The "you can't win in thailand unless you win by KO" saying is a myth, probably created by Ramon Dekkers fans.
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It's definitely not a myth in Japan though. I've seen it countless times in both Kyokushin and Kickboxing.
 
The thing with WAKO judges was always a big problem once an Italian became president. The Italians, French and South Europeans would build a mafiosi system of judges. If 2 of 3 judges were from South Europe there was no way to win, specially when fighting against an Italian. You couldn't win if you beat the guy dead. They would find a reason for disqualification.
Americans, Brits and Germans were always neutral in their scoring. They even scored against their own countrymen when they felt they had to.
The East Europeans always complained about it by staging protests in the ring. Let's say a Kasach fighter lost a fight. He would keep sitting in the ring for an hour in protest .... It was really horrible, but that was back in the 90ies.

As for giving judges incentives to do their jobs right .... there are some, but they come from the wrong sources. Incentives to judge a fight in a certain way are usually provided in the way that promotors or officials suggest that the judge could be re-invited for the rematch under the condition of a certain outcome .... and the judge be provided with the same amenities such as access to free booze and hookers for example .... just saying .... hearing rumors ... Of course, demands and conditions aren't negotiated, they are just implied politely.
 
Kanka said:
Robbery or not?
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Hard to score. I thought Kongsak won the 2nd and probably the the 3rd, but only narrowly.

For me it comes down to how you scored the clinch in those rounds. Payet seemed to control the positioning, but didn’t do anything terribly meaningful there.

Kongsak had several clean sweeps in both rounds, and was striking more accurately and effectively. Though Payet’s shots were more devastating when they did land.

I wouldn’t say it was a robbery, but Kongsak would have torn Payet a new asshole, had he not been twice Kongsak’s size.
 
Blazeblack said:
Hard to score. I thought Kongsak won the 2nd and probably the the 3rd, but only narrowly.

For me it comes down to how you scored the clinch in those rounds. Payet seemed to control the positioning, but didn’t do anything terribly meaningful there.

Kongsak had several clean sweeps in both rounds, and was striking more accurately and effectively. Though Payet’s shots were more devastating when they did land.

I wouldn’t say it was a robbery, but Kongsak would have torn Payet a new asshole, had he not been twice Kongsak’s size.
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I actually didn't have time to watch the fight yet. But it is always suspicious when non-french lose a close fight in France.
 
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