RNC vs Lapel Choke

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Gerbiljiujitsu, Oct 9, 2010.

  1. Gerbiljiujitsu

    Gerbiljiujitsu Purple Belt

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    I like the RNC and I use it frequently while training without the kimono, but recently I realized that I almost never use it while training in the kimono.

    I dont really view the lapel chokes as better than the RNC, but it seems like they are just more viable against people who defend well.

    Am I the only person who rarely uses the RNC in the gi?
     
  2. cooltoon999

    cooltoon999 Orange Belt

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    I use da pentagram brah its so cool and effective
     
  3. dazed863

    dazed863 Blue Belt

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    you have a lot more time in than i do but i'm the same.

    in nogi i can get the RNC but in the gi almost never....

    do you think the lapels help your opponent defend? it does seem like it's a lot easier to hide your jaw line.
     
  4. bjornvil

    bjornvil Blue Belt

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    I never ever go for the RNC when in the Gi... just lapel chokes.
     
  5. CyberFreq

    CyberFreq Blue Belt

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    IMO it's harder to go for an RNC wearing the gi because of all the material in the way.

    I'm not saying the opportunities for RNC's don't pop up from time to time wearing the gi, but lapel chokes are just there more often.
     
  6. brandon0627

    brandon0627 White Belt

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    Oh yeah!!! Submissions 101!!! As long as it's fancy you can have sloppy technique.:D Seriously, I prefer lapel chokes. It's easier to get them deep and the setups are endless.
     
  7. tysnw

    tysnw Brown Belt

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    Can we get some lapel choke names over here? I don't know any lapel chokes from behind except the cross collar.

    Videos would be appreciated, thank you all!
     
  8. BatBoyJG

    BatBoyJG Brown Belt

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    When I put the gi on I never try RNC's because I want to practice my collar chokes
     
  9. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Without reading any of the other responses I can safely say that no, you aren't the only person that rarely uses the RNC in the gi. Some people do use it every ow and then, just because most people don't think they have to worry about it. At the last Worlds, Ryan Hall used a RNC in the first round. Usually if someone has your back no-gi, it's RNC, and if it's gi, it's bow-and-arrow choke.

    That doesn't mean you'll never see it in the gi, because even I used the RNC yesterday on someone in a gi, but the collar choke is just easier. Almost all naked chokes, especially head-and-arm chokes are harder in the gi because all the clothing makes it harder to slip through all the necessary spaces.
     
  10. ProdigyOfZen

    ProdigyOfZen Orange Belt

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    Jeremy, I prefer the Okuri eri jime or in english the sliding lapel choke. It only takes one hand and the other one is free to control. I threaten with the RNC and switch to the Okuri eri jime.

    The other week in class i think i hit that move 8 different times on 8 different people. It is very high percentage plus it feels badass to turn a guy an put your knee just below their neck on the back while having the opposite lapel across the front of their neck. hehe.

    But yeah it is much easier to get lapel chokes on Gi than the RNC but i still love my RNC. Obvious reason is the Gi and being able to just cover with hands.
     
  11. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    If you have the back, bow-and-arrow all the way. I also like the half nelson lapel choke AKA the KatahaJime in Judo (single wing choke.)

    bow and arrow


    half-nelson
    I dunno what youtube vids are good and what's crap so you can find the katahajime on your own. I don't wanna link something stupid. You're gonna find a lot of Judo videos, which is fine.
     
  12. ProdigyOfZen

    ProdigyOfZen Orange Belt

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    TYSNW, you wanted a video? here you go, from the show Human Weapon Judo. this clearly shows the Okuri Eri Jime.

    YouTube - Human Weapon Judo - Okuri Eri Jime


    this video here, is Toshihiko showing the sliding lapel choke from turtle.

    YouTube - Toshihiko Koga's Okuri Eri Jime

    I think sometimes people label this a clock choke in english but I believe that is a different technique (very similar) from turtle using the back of the collar/gi.

    This is quite possibly my favorite move. I hit it from back, turtle and mount.
     
  13. ProdigyOfZen

    ProdigyOfZen Orange Belt

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    Hey Drew, it seems to me that the bow and arrow plus clock choke are variations to the Okuri eri jime or as I like to say part of its family tree haha. What do you think? I could be wrong.
     
  14. tysnw

    tysnw Brown Belt

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    Thank you all very much for the videos. I'm gonna spend a long time on them haha. Appreciate it!
     
  15. tysnw

    tysnw Brown Belt

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    I really don't see the difference between the bow and arrow and okuri eri jime. are they the same choke or am I blind?
     
  16. ProdigyOfZen

    ProdigyOfZen Orange Belt

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    The difference is the set up etc. Both of them are sliding lapel chokes.
     
  17. tysnw

    tysnw Brown Belt

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    Noted. Thanks, shall try it out in training next time i get someone's back.
     
  18. ProdigyOfZen

    ProdigyOfZen Orange Belt

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    TYNW, watch the video on Koga, you can't see the difference in the moves? The bow and arrow is used when you have the back. He is using it from turtle. I use the Okuri eri jime from mount.

    Normally I get a good grip on the lapel with one hand then bait the guy to turn when i open one leg up and have the other knee still down.

    Imagine it like this: you have mount, you grab with your left hand on his right lapel aka the lapel closest to your left hand (not the cross lapel). Then you pop up on your foot with your right leg while keeping the left knee down and your butt/hips should keep pressure on him when you pop that leg and he turns (usually they will turn to the side where the opening is). This is when you loop your left hand around the head and apply pressure with the left that is already on the ground while basically sitting on his torso. You may have to slide the left knee up but usually what happens is you flatten them out completely on the ground then put your knee on their back just below their neck.

    fun stuff. If the chance that they do turn into you, just reverse the position.
     
  19. Karmeliet

    Karmeliet Green Belt

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    lol, nice.

    I rarely go for the lapel myself. For some reason most of the gi manipulation techniques don't come very naturally for me (at blue belt even). I have more of a grappling instinct, so I usually just go for the RNC, armbar, or pro wrasslin style dragon sleeper if I'm feeling fancy.
     
  20. Gerbiljiujitsu

    Gerbiljiujitsu Purple Belt

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    thanks for the videos and the feedback guys. Good to know that I'm not the only one.
     

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