Rizin 15 April 21st Yokohama

ThunderL1ps said:
Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta said they were going to do all of these match ups both in the US and Japan. UFC knew full well what the roster was before they bought it. WWE looked over PRIDE FC first and after their due diligence they passed on purchasing PRIDE FC.

Zuffa knew full well what they were buying.

Most contracts were tied to PRIDE and others were not (notably Fedor). Tell me more about the gutting of the roster. That's news to me. Also the fighters in that poster from the PRIDE side were not exactly expensive contracts, relatively speaking.
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I tend to believe that they had no intention of keeping PRIDE alive for very long. It was probably always in the plan to phase it out eventually. There is probably truth to the Japanese companies that were in bed with PRIDE being unwilling to work with gaijin, which essentially sped up the process of getting rid of the company altogether. The UFC, while not the same regime, already had a ton of trouble with the Japanese market, and wasn't successful when they held cards there. They knew that it would be difficult to continue holding shows, even with the PRIDE name, and knew they were going to pull the plug, eventually.

All we need to look at is their history after this deal. Every single company they bought out was folded, with Strikeforce and WEC still holding shows for a time beyond their respective buyouts. But if the UFC had lighter weights at that time, they'd had certainly folded that company sooner (as they did with all of the higher weight classes from the beginning) and it would have lasted at best for a few more years, like Strikeforce.

It is hard to believe that they have EVER bought a company with the intention of keeping it alive. The only intention we can see is that they wanted to grab any assets they could (contracts, fight libraries, etc.) and fold what they could into the UFC brand. Dana literally celebrated that he killed his competition. He can go on about trying to keep PRIDE alive, but I can't really believe a word he says about any of it.
 
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Bobby Boulders said:
I tend to believe that they had no intention of keeping PRIDE alive for very long. It was probably always in the plan to phase it out eventually. There is probably truth to the Japanese companies that were in bed with PRIDE being unwilling to work with gaijin, which essentially sped up the process of getting rid of the company altogether. The UFC, while not the same regime, already had a ton of trouble with the Japanese market, and wasn't successful when they held cards there. They knew that it would be difficult to continue holding shows, even with the PRIDE name, and knew they were going to pull the plug, eventually.

All we need to look at is their history after this deal. Every single company they bought out was folded, with Strikeforce and WEC still holding shows for a time beyond their respective buyouts. But if the UFC had lighter weights at that time, they'd had certainly folded that company sooner (as they did with all of the higher weight classes from the beginning) and it would have lasted at hest for a few more years, like Strikeforce.

It is hard to believe that they have EVER bought a company with the intention of keeping it alive. The only intention we can see is that they wanted to grab any assets they could (contracts, fight libraries, etc.) and fold what they could into the UFC brand. Dana literally celebrated that he killed his competition. He can go on about trying to keep PRIDE alive, but I can't really believe a word he says about any of it.
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Depending on how much you trust the PRIDE Secret Files book, there probably was some goofiness on the Japanese end but the whole thing was botched by ZUFFA. Basically the Fertittas were originally turned down after failing a background check due to transparency issues with their casino business. The LW GP was legitimately planned but the UFC dragged their feet because they wanted to wait until they had full ownership of PRIDE. They then shut down the PRIDE offices without warning any employees and hadn't yet contacted any PRIDE contracted fighters.

Basically anyone claiming either side is innocent/without blame is probably naive.
 
Asurah said:
Depending on how much you trust the PRIDE Secret Files book, there probably was some goofiness on the Japanese end but the whole thing was botched by ZUFFA. Basically the Fertittas were originally turned down after failing a background check due to transparency issues with their casino business. The LW GP was legitimately planned but the UFC dragged their feet because they wanted to wait until they had full ownership of PRIDE. They then shut down the PRIDE offices without warning any employees and hadn't yet contacted any PRIDE contracted fighters.

Basically anyone claiming either side is innocent/without blame is probably naive.
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I certainly don't believe PRIDE acted like a bunch of good guys during the whole ordeal. I just don't believe that things went remotely as Dana explained. The guy never tells the truth.
 
Back on Global MMA there was this guy that would post this tweet of Dana gloating about killing Pride. Don't know if it was legit or not.
 
Bobby Boulders said:
I tend to believe that they had no intention of keeping PRIDE alive for very long. It was probably always in the plan to phase it out eventually. There is probably truth to the Japanese companies that were in bed with PRIDE being unwilling to work with gaijin, which essentially sped up the process of getting rid of the company altogether. The UFC, while not the same regime, already had a ton of trouble with the Japanese market, and wasn't successful when they held cards there. They knew that it would be difficult to continue holding shows, even with the PRIDE name, and knew they were going to pull the plug, eventually.

All we need to look at is their history after this deal. Every single company they bought out was folded, with Strikeforce and WEC still holding shows for a time beyond their respective buyouts. But if the UFC had lighter weights at that time, they'd had certainly folded that company sooner (as they did with all of the higher weight classes from the beginning) and it would have lasted at best for a few more years, like Strikeforce.

It is hard to believe that they have EVER bought a company with the intention of keeping it alive. The only intention we can see is that they wanted to grab any assets they could (contracts, fight libraries, etc.) and fold what they could into the UFC brand. Dana literally celebrated that he killed his competition. He can go on about trying to keep PRIDE alive, but I can't really believe a word he says about any of it.
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SF and WEC were North American based though so it made sense. Keeping those 2 alive would have diluted the UFC brand name which is more valuable financially than any roster of fighters. It's also how UFC have traditionally done business. Getting guys like Diaz, Faber, Rockhold to be UFC exclusive have also been very good financially.

Japan is a different story. Pride was worth keeping alive because it had a better brand in Japan and Korea than UFC. That didn't work out because of all sorts of reasons. The backup plan would have been to absorb the big names on the roster and run UFC shows in Japan with them. That didn't go well either for another set of reasons.

In other words, it was a shit deal. I think they wanted then basically what One FC has today but it didn't materialise and could be the UFC backers soured on Asia.

What I hate about that Pride poster and Sakakibara is that they actually had Saitama booked for a fixed date and were actually displaying ticket prices. Meaning fans could have been paying for them only to get fucked without refund.
 
KenkaBancho said:
SF and WEC were North American based though so it made sense. Keeping those 2 alive would have diluted the UFC brand name which is more valuable financially than any roster of fighters. It's also how UFC have traditionally done business. Getting guys like Diaz, Faber, Rockhold to be UFC exclusive have also been very good financially.

Japan is a different story. Pride was worth keeping alive because it had a better brand in Japan and Korea than UFC. That didn't work out because of all sorts of reasons. The backup plan would have been to absorb the big names on the roster and run UFC shows in Japan with them. That didn't go well either for another set of reasons.

In other words, it was a shit deal. I think they wanted then basically what One FC has today but it didn't materialise and could be the UFC backers soured on Asia.

What I hate about that Pride poster and Sakakibara is that they actually had Saitama booked for a fixed date and were actually displaying ticket prices. Meaning fans could have been paying for them only to get fucked without refund.
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Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. I would imagine, in a way, the UFC will be looking very closely at how ONE does in Tokyo next March. I know that the UFC is in China now, and they're building an UFCI there, and have an office there now (or are going to have one), and that's probably awesome for them, but I'm sure they'd still love to be bigger in Japan and won't be happy if ONE breaks through there.
 
CDF47 said:
Relax guy.
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CDF47 said:
They put on highly entertaining fights with the best rules in MMA and some of their own stars. They even work with Bellator, DEEP, Pancrase, and others in cross-promotional fights. RIZIN is one of the best orgs. in the world. It is the return of big time JMMA. If you don't like it, go back to the UFC forum. I know you like to shill and troll in here but you ain't bugging me.
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<LikeReally5>
 
Bobby Boulders said:
Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. I would imagine, in a way, the UFC will be looking very closely at how ONE does in Tokyo next March. I know that the UFC is in China now, and they're building an UFCI there, and have an office there now (or are going to have one), and that's probably awesome for them, but I'm sure they'd still love to be bigger in Japan and won't be happy if ONE breaks through there.
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Fortunately/unfortunately ONE is most likely going to flop in Japan if they don't cancel the event prior
 
Bobby Boulders said:
Explain.
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They're rich, but don't use their money wisely. The key to doing well in Japan is making Masato v2. Japan has currently only two candidates for the role - Tenshin and Takeru. Chatri needs at least one to stay in Japan.

Historically, no headliner = promotional death in Japan. Pride (Saku), K1 (Masato), Sengoku (Yoshida) all died the same way. Combine that with low interest in MMA. Dream never even got off the ground and they had KID (rip). UFC ran shows with Wanderlei, KID and Gomi - also no luck.

K1 is marketing the fuck out of Takeru and that's why they're on the map. Rizin did the same for Tenshin and he got Mayweather.

One has.... Aoki? Alvarez? DJ? Fucking Mei Yamaguchi? You couldn't put asses in seats in the hotter US market with those names, let alone Japan.
 
KenkaBancho said:
They're rich, but don't use their money wisely. The key to doing well in Japan is making Masato v2. Japan has currently only two candidates for the role - Tenshin and Takeru. Chatri needs at least one to stay in Japan.

Historically, no headliner = promotional death in Japan. Pride (Saku), K1 (Masato), Sengoku (Yoshida) all died the same way. Combine that with low interest in MMA. Dream never even got off the ground and they had KID (rip). UFC ran shows with Wanderlei, KID and Gomi - also no luck.

K1 is marketing the fuck out of Takeru and that's why they're on the map. Rizin did the same for Tenshin and he got Mayweather.

One has.... Aoki? Alvarez? DJ? Fucking Mei Yamaguchi? You couldn't put asses in seats in the hotter US market with those names, let alone Japan.
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A lot of good insight here. All of the biggest draws in Japan were stars that average people wanted to see. Bob Sapp fighting Sumo wrestlers. KID fighting Masato. You're right, ONE isn't going to captivate people without someone who matters. Most of the highest rated fights in Japan involved people who weren't really fighters. Akebono, Bobby Ologun, Ken Kaneko. It is relatively the same in the states. They've had a few fighters get major viewerships (Conor and Ronda, mostly), but the other two MMA fighters who brought huge ratings/buys were Kimbo and Brock, who were both basically celebrities, or pop culture phenoms. KSW seems to be on board with this line of thinking and does very well in Poland. Celebrity seems to be the only proven way to bring in eyeballs.
 
Bobby Boulders said:
A lot of good insight here. All of the biggest draws in Japan were stars that average people wanted to see. Bob Sapp fighting Sumo wrestlers. KID fighting Masato. You're right, ONE isn't going to captivate people without someone who matters. Most of the highest rated fights in Japan involved people who weren't really fighters. Akebono, Bobby Ologun, Ken Kaneko. It is relatively the same in the states. They've had a few fighters get major viewerships (Conor and Ronda, mostly), but the other two MMA fighters who brought huge ratings/buys were Kimbo and Brock, who were both basically celebrities, or pop culture phenoms. KSW seems to be on board with this line of thinking and does very well in Poland. Celebrity seems to be the only proven way to bring in eyeballs.
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I actually think UFC is going through a similar cycle as Pride, albeit having been far more successful

Ironically as the skill level of fighters increased, the promotions seem to decline financially and are only propped up by major names. The same could be said of WWE
 
KenkaBancho said:
I actually think UFC is going through a similar cycle as Pride, albeit having been far more successful

Ironically as the skill level of fighters increased, the promotions seem to decline financially and are only propped up by major names. The same could be said of WWE
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Hmm. That's a catch 22 right there. You want legitimate fights and to be taken seriously, but when the fighters reach that skill level and you've brought most of them in under the same umbrella, people no longer care anymore.

I wonder, with WME running the show, how long it will take for the UFC to regress a bit and pull a desperation move to get people talking and watching, like signing some legitimate celebrity with some kind of combat sports training to fight an MMA jobbers type? I also wonder if the CM Punk thing was a test run by Zuffa to see how the fans would react to something of that nature? I'm unsure Punk was the right person for the job, having little to no formal martial arts training, but what if they signed a celebrity who did? What if they finally brought in Shaq? That for sure would bring in eyeballs, and WME seems crazy enough to make it happen.

I'd think ONE would be crazy enough to do some shit like that too. Although, perhaps the culture in SE Asia is a bit different, idk. They certainly pulled a coup when they signed Srisaket Sor Rungvisai, put him in a match in Bangkok, and got major ratings for it. What if they signed Inoue for a boxing match? That would solve all of their problems breaking into Japan.

That could be the other option for the UFC, find a way to sign a guy like Canelo. That won't happen, but I think Golovkin said he'd like to try MMA. Lomachenko would be the best bet.

When it comes down to it, the orgs don't think in terms of what fans want people want to see. Fans want to see a legitimate contest between two of the best legitimate fighters. Average Joe Schmos don't care about that shit, else they'd be watching. Joe Schmo might be intrigued enough to watch Jason Statham fight some cam though.

These idiots should put me on the payroll and let me work my magic. Khabib vs Justin Timberlake for the title will break every conceivable record we can think of.
 
Bobby Boulders said:
Hmm. That's a catch 22 right there. You want legitimate fights and to be taken seriously, but when the fighters reach that skill level and you've brought most of them in under the same umbrella, people no longer care anymore.

I wonder, with WME running the show, how long it will take for the UFC to regress a bit and pull a desperation move to get people talking and watching, like signing some legitimate celebrity with some kind of combat sports training to fight an MMA jobbers type? I also wonder if the CM Punk thing was a test run by Zuffa to see how the fans would react to something of that nature? I'm unsure Punk was the right person for the job, having little to no formal martial arts training, but what if they signed a celebrity who did? What if they finally brought in Shaq? That for sure would bring in eyeballs, and WME seems crazy enough to make it happen.

I'd think ONE would be crazy enough to do some shit like that too. Although, perhaps the culture in SE Asia is a bit different, idk. They certainly pulled a coup when they signed Srisaket Sor Rungvisai, put him in a match in Bangkok, and got major ratings for it. What if they signed Inoue for a boxing match? That would solve all of their problems breaking into Japan.

That could be the other option for the UFC, find a way to sign a guy like Canelo. That won't happen, but I think Golovkin said he'd like to try MMA. Lomachenko would be the best bet.

When it comes down to it, the orgs don't think in terms of what fans want people want to see. Fans want to see a legitimate contest between two of the best legitimate fighters. Average Joe Schmos don't care about that shit, else they'd be watching. Joe Schmo might be intrigued enough to watch Jason Statham fight some cam though.

These idiots should put me on the payroll and let me work my magic. Khabib vs Justin Timberlake for the title will break every conceivable record we can think of.
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Look at the next UFC television event. Greg Hardy, PVZ vs. Ostovich, Champion vs. Champion superfight. It's all designed to attract casual interest,
 
Danespina said:
Look at the next UFC television event. Greg Hardy, PVZ vs. Ostovich, Champion vs. Champion superfight. It's all designed to attract casual interest,
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They're learning, but where is our Ken Kaneko? They could get more viewers and a new target audience if they signed Orlando Bloom. The panties would be flying through the TV screens and right into the Octagon.
 
Here we go. The first Rizin 15 press conference is tomorrow at 02:00 ET.
 
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