Rickson states that competition BJJ

[Jeff Goldblum]

anyone who thinks Jiu-jitsu is JUST a sport is a freakin idiot...

But very definition alone it's much more than that..

 

[Supereem]

Dude Mario Sperry has some of the best stuff on VT....that dude is one of my favorite fighters...him and Murillo Bustamante.

BTT BJJ is my favourite! Also how can you not agree with Rickson or atleast see were his comming from? Obviously PURE sports BJJ wouldnt translate perfectly to MMA or VT and it needs adaption...

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Funny that! I never read anything about it. always read about some famous JJ guys mentionning that he is the best. but never once read about he rolls with everyone at the seminars.

I've read the exact opposite in every testimonial.

 

[Krow***]

Rickson has more authority in the subject than all of the sherdogers combined. That being said, you all look very silly disagreeing with him, because none of you have his credentials. Not even close!

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Everything i seen from "self defense " bjj is in judo self defense kata . I love sport bjj but the self defense stuff is kata which really is what bjj prides there self on not doing right ??

In short, no.

 

[anaconda]

Well yes, obviously sport bjj is 100% sport bjj. But sport bjj isn't all of what bjj has always been about. The fact that there are so many high level bjj practitioners in MMA is not a coincidence nor an accident. It was designed for a fight. The sporting aspect existed simultaneously, and allowed practitioners to hone their skills and develop them to a high level. Sport-style training and competition is certainly part of bjj. But what Rickson is saying (taking into account that all percentages like this are arbitrary) is that the art that he learned and taught is not purely sport, and is meant for fighting and self defense as well. Whether you choose to train purely for sport of not, that's your choice. There's nothing wrong with one or the other. But what Rickson is saying is merely that the jiu jitsu he believes in is not just a sport, although sport is part of it.

I don't see what part of that people find so objectionable.

I don't see what part of training bjj solely as a sport people find so objectionable.

 

[Chris Spicer]

"You guys watch too much fucking Brazilian Jiu Jitsu." - Relson Gracie

Haha, yep.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I don't see what part of training bjj solely as a sport people find so objectionable.

I don't find it objectionable, I just don't think that's all there is to bjj. It's fine to focus exclusively on sport competition.

 

[anaconda]

Some of us don't live on the streets where we are in constant danger of getting jumped....I have no interest in learning self-defense from jiujitsu, and here's my logic:

If its a one-on-one confrontation, my sports bjj training leaves me with more than enough confidence to defend myself and neutralize any attacker.

In a situation with multiple attackers, no amount of jiujitsu is going to save me better than a good pair of running shoes.

Seriously, some of you people act like you get into serious confrontations on a daily basis.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

So on one hand you're saying that you have no interest in learning self-defense from jiu jitsu, but on the other hand you're saying that in a confrontation you're confident that your sport knowledge will allow you to defend yourself. Presumably the latter part of that is a good thing. So do you consider that a side benefit and not a reason for training? Because clearly you're saying that what you know can be used for self defense.

 

[GracieMMABarra]

There is a difference no question. I love both however it's important to recognize what positions are better for self defense and what's better for sport BJJ. Training with light striking helps a lot because the fact is, even the best BJJers in the world can fall apart in a self defense situation after being hit in the face.

 

[teamcarvalho]

Some of us don't live on the streets where we are in constant danger of getting jumped....I have no interest in learning self-defense from jiujitsu, and here's my logic:

If its a one-on-one confrontation, my sports bjj training leaves me with more than enough confidence to defend myself and neutralize any attacker.

In a situation with multiple attackers, no amount of jiujitsu is going to save me better than a good pair of running shoes.

Seriously, some of you people act like you get into serious confrontations on a daily basis.

So you are saying that you can defend against strikes with out practicing for it? Shooting in on someone takes practice when there are kicks or punches involved. What if the guy grabs your shirt with one hand and punching your face in with the other.....are you ready for this type of violence.

As a matter of fact have you ever been in a real fight with some crazy motherfucker who is a street fighter and loves fighting. Some people say they can fight but when the shit hits the fan they practically piss themselves. It is not about just having the technique it is about having the mindset. You have to be able to control your emotions.......this you don't learn in just in sport BJJ. I have been in a lot of real street fights and everyone of them I was scared of getting my ass beat. ..........if anyone says they don't get scared is full of shit.

Secondly...... some people do live in areas where crime is high and the threat of being attacked is there. Some people do have jobs that place them in threatening situations while on the job.

 

[Il Wop-O]

30% is sport BJJ, 30% self-defense, and the rest is Rickson worship...

Seriously who cares what he thinks? If you train sport bjj, then 100% is sport. It is what you make of it. The Gracies have been deluded for a long time.

The only one I can take seriously is Renzo bc he is the only one that puts it on the line repeatedly and actually practices what he preaches.

I think you didn't read the article. I bet Renzo would not disagree with aything he said. He said in addition to sport BJJ, there should be standup striking & clinchwork, takedowns, and a good vale tudo guard. He said without all of those components, you should not feel comfortable walking around knowing that you can handle a confrontation.

Seems sensible enough to me...

 

[anaconda]

So you are saying that you can defend against strikes with out practicing for it? Shooting in on someone takes practice when there are kicks or punches involved. What if the guy grabs your shirt with one hand and punching your face in with the other.....are you ready for this type of violence.

As a matter of fact have you ever been in a real fight with some crazy motherfucker who is a street fighter and loves fighting. Some people say they can fight but when the shit hits the fan they practically piss themselves. It is not about just having the technique it is about having the mindset. You have to be able to control your emotions.......this you don't learn in just in sport BJJ. I have been in a lot of real street fights and everyone of them I was scared of getting my ass beat. ..........if anyone says they don't get scared is full of shit.

Secondly...... some people do live in areas where crime is high and the threat of being attacked is there. Some people do have jobs that place them in threatening situations while on the job.

I've been in plenty of street fights and every one of them was avoidable if someone didn't choose to be stupid.

Besides that, oddly enough, I've never been in a street fight since starting BJJ. Am I so much older and wiser? I don't think so. I think it just teaches you that getting into a fight on the street proves nothing and you don't need to scuffle with every douche who looks at you the wrong way or cuts you off on the highway.

People act like self-defense is an absolute necessity when, the reality is, sport bjj training will get you to a pretty good place in terms of defending yourself if you really need it. If you want to focus on self-defense, go for it - more power to you. But don't act like NOT training self-defense all of a sudden means joe blow on the street is going to run through you. And don't act like you're getting into compromising situations everyday.

You know what the best knife or gun defense is? Give the person what he wants and be on your way. You want to risk getting shot or stabbed over some money or something? Please - this is even more apparent with multiple attackers or when defense of others is involved.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

You know what the best knife or gun defense is? Give the person what he wants and be on your way. You want to risk getting shot or stabbed over some money or something? Please - this is even more apparent with multiple attackers or when defense of others is involved.

I don't think anyone has ever suggested doing anything different. Nobody teaches weapons defense so that you can voluntarily get into a confrontation with an armed attacker. This is as silly as people who talk about bjj in a streetfight and say "oh you don't want to pull guard in the street." Nobody is saying you should.

My bjj instructor and muay thai instructor are both weapons specialists as well, and have conducted training seminars for the NYPD and federal air marshals. They always stress that you avoid the confrontation and give the person what they want. The training is for when that is not an option.

I want to say that everything in this post is totally unrelated to the whole Rickson-related discussion and this thread as a whole. I was just responding to what I quoted.

 

[anaconda]

I think you didn't read the article. I bet Renzo would not disagree with aything he said. He said in addition to sport BJJ, there should be standup striking & clinchwork, takedowns, and a good vale tudo guard. He said without all of those components, you should not feel comfortable walking around knowing that you can handle a confrontation.

Seems sensible enough to me...

Thats fine, and I can agree with that. I think you should be well-rounded. But to act like training just for sport is not real jiujitsu is ridiculous - go read Balto's post. Its a culmination of all the Gracies and their attitude for such a long period of time that makes them sound ridiculous. And it always seems to come out after they lose in competition that they minimize the importance of sport jiujitsu - I haven't seen them saying anything back when Royler was winning competitions.

 

[Balto]

So you are saying that you can defend against strikes with out practicing for it? Shooting in on someone takes practice when there are kicks or punches involved. What if the guy grabs your shirt with one hand and punching your face in with the other.....are you ready for this type of violence.

As a matter of fact have you ever been in a real fight with some crazy motherfucker who is a street fighter and loves fighting. Some people say they can fight but when the shit hits the fan they practically piss themselves. It is not about just having the technique it is about having the mindset. You have to be able to control your emotions.......this you don't learn in just in sport BJJ. I have been in a lot of real street fights and everyone of them I was scared of getting my ass beat. ..........if anyone says they don't get scared is full of shit.

Secondly...... some people do live in areas where crime is high and the threat of being attacked is there. Some people do have jobs that place them in threatening situations while on the job.

What you say about the mindset is spot on. However, I do think that sport BJJ competitions do a very good job of simulating the mindset of a realistic situation.

Although the available techniques obviously differ, the mentality is very close. It's a lot of pressure in a short period of time. Being able to control your emotions and keep focused under pressure is a huge part of competition and extremely applicable to real situations.

The only kind of pressure I've heard from guys that is even more intense is actually taking an MMA fight in the cage. But just the regular MMA sparring is not usually as intense mentally as a BJJ competition in my experience, even if the set of techniques available is a better approximation.

 

[HardEight]

Let's take for example driving a car.
Anyone can be taught to drive a car. Some do it for fun, some for pleasure, some for necessity, and some choose not to do it at all.
Ok now lets take an extreme area of driving like Formula 1 (NASCAR if you prefer) and look at what these guys do to excel at their game. Sure it takes a lot of specialized training and tactics that would never work in real life situations. They do shady things like wrecking their opponents cars and sacrificing their own ability to finish, for a DNF on their rival just so the points board will still have them in the lead when the race is over, and boom they are champion. They are professionals in their field and they repeatedly prove themselves in competition.

But they all started from somewhere. They learned the basics first. They all had to go to the DMV , take driving tests, and learn how to not grind gears on a standard at some point in their lives. Everyone should know the basics when trying to conquer any endeavor. The basis of BJJ is self defense. That is what it was designed for. Just like getting from point A to point B is what automobiles were designed for.

Yes there are certain areas to everything in life that you can niche yourself into, but personally I think you miss out on a lot of what makes what you enjoy in life so much more enriched and interesting. The basics may not necessarily hurt your game, but I don't see how they could hurt either. Besides, I bet there isn't an F1 driver out there that doesn't know how to parallel park as well as pull 5 g's in a corner on the race track.

This analogy might not make any sense to anyone else but me, but I like it anyway.

 

[anaconda]

Let's take for example driving a car.
Anyone can be taught to drive a car. Some do it for fun, some for pleasure, some for necessity, and some choose not to do it at all.
Ok now lets take an extreme area of driving like Formula 1 (NASCAR if you prefer) and look at what these guys do to excel at their game. Sure it takes a lot of specialized training and tactics that would never work in real life situations. They do shady things like wrecking their opponents cars and sacrificing their own ability to finish, for a DNF on their rival just so the points board will still have them in the lead when the race is over, and boom they are champion. They are professionals in their field and they repeatedly prove themselves in competition.

But they all started from somewhere. They learned the basics first. They all had to go to the DMV , take driving tests, and learn how to not grind gears on a standard at some point in their lives. Everyone should know the basics when trying to conquer any endeavor. The basis of BJJ is self defense. That is what it was designed for. Just like getting from point A to point B is what automobiles were designed for.

Yes there are certain areas to everything in life that you can niche yourself into, but personally I think you miss out on a lot of what makes what you enjoy in life so much more enriched and interesting. The basics may not necessarily hurt your game, but I don't see how they could hurt either. Besides, I bet there isn't an F1 driver out there that doesn't know how to parallel park as well as pull 5 g's in a corner on the race track.

This analogy might not make any sense to anyone else but me, but I like it anyway.

The analogy was fine, except when you said "the basis of jiujitsu is self defense."

I disagree totally - you do not need to learn how to defend a knife attack to excel in competition. The basis of jiujitsu is live sparring - like the basis of F1 driving is driving a car. Thats the core of it, and what can be boiled down to the most basic levels.

Drilling knife defense on a non-resisting opponent is virtually useless.

Besides everything else, this brings up an important point that I think Balto or someone touched on earlier - if you want to learn self-defense against weapons, there are far better disciplines to study. Military hand-to-hand combat has taken techniques rooted in bjj and other arts and has done what bjj did to the arts before it - boiled it down to the most useful and applicable techniques, and made them better.

BJJ as taught by the Gracies is not the best self-defense you can learn. Although I like team carvalho's sparring with the gloves on, and I think thats actually a great way to learn, that can only be learned hand in hand with live sparring of just jiujitsu so that you can practice the techniques at 100%. Otherwise you will never learn the proper timing and movement.

The bottom line: if you want to train self-defense, go for it - but don't disparage others simply because they have no interest in it, and don't feel like learning it.

 

[Davii]

uh, what the hell does "gun and knife defense" have to do with jiu jitsu?
if somebody comes at you with a glock you pull guard?

Yes, in BJJ always pull guard. This is how it is taught.

There aren't videos of young helio showing weapons defense are there? No I think he pulled guard.