Rewind: 2009 - Cotto vs Pac

[Brains of Steel]

I have always had the utmost respect for Cotto. He is a gentleman fighter, true class in and out of the ring. I love his style, his tools, his skillset, his attitude, his composure. Cotto is the man.

But dear God, Pac was just on another level at his peak. His combinations flowed like water and crashed all over all of Cotto's shorelines. Sure wish we coulda seen May/Pac in 2009 or so, cuz that would have been a bit more of an action fight.

This is artwork by both men, but we do get to see the display of differences between "one of the best of his era" and "one of the best of all time."

Excelsior, gentlemen.

 

[JayElectra]

I like Cotto, but the fact he never thinks he's lost a decision prevents me from putting him in the Arguello category of so-called gentlemen inside and outside the ring. Anyway, this is up there with Pacquiao's best performances. His first win over Barrera and maybe his second win over Morales are the only other performances that really stack up to this one, I think.

 

[Brains of Steel]

"Look at Pacquiao. Isn't he a beautiful machine? He can punch combinations, and is so fluid and loose, and be moving with his rhythm; in and out, in and out, in and out, and punching from all angles."
-Emanuel Steward

 

[Brains of Steel]

I like Cotto, but the fact he never thinks he's lost a decision prevents me from putting him in the Arguello category of so-called gentlemen inside and outside the ring. Anyway, this is up there with Pacquiao's best performances. His first win over Barrera and maybe his second win over Morales are the only other performances that really stack up to this one, I think.

I'd liken him to Arguello for sure as a gentleman; but yeah, he does have that ultra-competitive mindset where he can't be defeated unless finished.

 

[Brains of Steel]

And as you said, this is one of Pac's finest hours. This guy right here has a chance to KO any welterweight ever.

 

[JayElectra]

And as you said, this is one of Pac's finest hours. This guy right here has a chance to KO any welterweight ever.

Maybe a small chance. I'd have a hard time seeing any version of Pacquiao KO the likes of Robinson, Leonard, Gavilan, Burley, Whitaker, or Mayweather.

 

[Brains of Steel]

A very interesting punch in this fight was the blistering straight left Cotto landed in round 5. Manny was flurrying, and Cotto exchanged with him. Cotto stepped iforward and in with a right and then blasted a southpaw cross that Manny never saw coming. Lesser fighters would have dropped from this shot. Manny's chin was beefy for real.

 

[Brains of Steel]

A small chance indeed. I do think he could finish Sweet Pete as well. He'd overwhelm him and force a late stoppage.

 

[stuff jones]

Manny was bouncing around on his feet in that fight. He's so much more flat footed now. He also lost some of that combative fearlessness that made him such a lethal offensive machine. That tapping his gloves together lets go thing. I think that happened after the Margs fight and then of course with JMM 4.

 

[Brains of Steel]

Manny was bouncing around on his feet in that fight. He's so much more flat footed now. He also lost some of that combative fearlessness that made him such a lethal offensive machine. That tapping his gloves together lets go thing. I think that happened after the Margs fight and then of course with JMM 4.

Marquez definitely knocked some of the shine off of Manny's dancing shoes. That was as brutal a one-punch KO of an all-time great as there is in the annals of pugilistic history. It's right up there with Rock/Walcott.

 

[stuff jones]

Marquez definitely knocked some of the shine off of Manny's dancing shoes. That was as brutal a one-punch KO of an all-time great as there is in the annals of pugilistic history. It's right up there with Rock/Walcott.

I think he lost some of his fearlessness in the Margarito fight first.

 

[Brains of Steel]

Pac would definitely score on Leonard. It'd be like the mirror of the 2nd Duran fight, but with Pac playing the role of Leonard. Ray would get No Mas'd to death.

 

[Brains of Steel]

I think he lost some of his fearlessness in the Margarito fight first.

No doubt. Margarito was a huge scarecrow, but once the wrap situation happened the big birds all got wise.

 

[JayElectra]

Pac would definitely score on Leonard. It'd be like the mirror of the 2nd Duran fight, but with Pac playing the role of Leonard. Ray would get No Mas'd to death.

... You think Manny Pacquiao would outbox Ray Leonard? Seriously? He wouldn't be some easy mark, I'm not saying that, but Pacquiao isn't outboxing Ray Leonard, let alone outclassing him.

 

[Brains of Steel]

But I keep bouncing around the Leonard vs Pacquiao matchup in my head, and for some reason I cannot imagine it NOT being a top 5 fight of all time. 15 rounds of those two would be unreal, like a Tazmanian Devil convention.

 

[Brains of Steel]

... You think Manny Pacquiao would outbox Ray Leonard? Seriously? He wouldn't be some easy mark, I'm not saying that, but Pacquiao isn't outboxing Ray Leonard, let alone outclassing him.

Not an outclassing, but a competitive, back-and-forth affair with a record set for punches thrown.

 

[Brains of Steel]

I just think Pac has that extra touch that gives him an advantage vs Leonard. They both have the speed, Ray is a bit more schooled, but Pac has that fight-changing power.

 

[JayElectra]

Not an outclassing, but a competitive, back-and-forth affair with a record set for punches thrown.

I doubt it (and it makes no sense that you'd predict that kind of fight after you said Pac would Leonard like Leonard boxed Duran in their second outing). Pacquiao threw a ton against fighters he could find. He wouldn't regularly find a guy like Leonard. I mean, Leonard is naturally a fair bit bigger than Pacquiao and he had an iron chin and at least equal power to Pac, so he'd probably trade with him a fair bit, but it's a pretty shitty matchup for Pacquiao. I don't really see any clear avenue to victory for him.

 

[JayElectra]

I just think Pac has that extra touch that gives him an advantage vs Leonard. They both have the speed, Ray is a bit more schooled, but Pac has that fight-changing power.

Pac was an exceptional puncher at FW. He was a very good puncher at LW. He was only above average at WW. Ray hit plenty hard above WW, let alone at the weight. Again, Ray is the naturally bigger man, and more or less Pac's equal in speed and power (probably the harder hitter, actually). Leonard isn't a fighter you beat with pure natural gifts. You need to outcraft him, and Pac doesn't have the the tools to do that (Duran was a more skilled boxer, and miles ahead of someone like Pac in terms of infighting, and someone like Hearns was massive with great boxing ability along with massive power and neither of those two men came close to really outclassing Leonard. Hearns got stopped at WW, and Duran edged a decision before the debacle in their rematch).

 

[Brains of Steel]

Ray is bigger, for sure. It certainly would be a fun fight.