Rewatched Castillo vs Mayweather 1

Nova44

Nova44

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So after i rewatched all the Marquez vs Vazquez fights due to Hagler's thread i decided to rewatch some other matches that popped into my head. Pernell vs Pineda, Foreman vs Moorer, Ward vs Froch, and lastly Castillo vs Mayweather 1.

I watched it once through without a care and then remembered that many thought it was a robbery, thus i rewatched it today again but tried my best to score it.

I ended up with 113-113 but i could see a point either way. A lot of what Castillo threw didn't land but got counted on the numbers, the ref was a complete shitshow and a better ref might have actually made the fight less controversial but who knows.

Castillo punches on the break, point deduction, Floyd punches after the bell, no deduction, Floyd repeatedly leads with the forearm, point deduction, Castillo hitting below the belt, no deduction. Ref please.

Thoughts?
 
one of those fights that could go either way. Neither went that extra mile to cement the fight. For comparison, I would consider GGG?Canelo 1 as a real/bigger steal, if you favtor Castillo (GGG). But nothing wrong with the official decision.. though I think GGG def won the first fight D=<
 
I thought it could have gone either way myself watching the first time.

That said most of my sparring in boxing gyms has involved amateur style point sparring to the head.

I think if I had sparred more rounds with pro’s I would have been able to relate to the body attack Castillo was landing. I think a lot of people probably underestimate the impact of that body attack.

Random point, Floyd was switching southpaw in that fight which I think was a sign he probably did have a shoulder injury. He also did the same thing in the first Maidana fight which is interesting that he did it in two fights where he was having problems though it made more tactical sense against Maidana.
 
If there was ever a style that gave Mayweather problems, then it was probably the Castillo, Maidana type of fighters. His defense was a bit leakier against a strong body attack and punches thrown from awkward angles on the inside.

The overhand right over the shoulder worked decently for both of those guys.
 
if it could've gone either way, then 10 10s should be used more liberally, and give us a Draw rather than arbitrarily assigning a loser.
 
Krimzon said:
if it could've gone either way, then 10 10s should be used more liberally, and give us a Draw rather than arbitrarily assigning a loser.
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Not a fan of even rounds myself. You think decisions are controversial now, wait until popular fighters lose because of an even round.
 
Seano said:
Not a fan of even rounds myself. You think decisions are controversial now, wait until popular fighters lose because of an even round.
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across the scope of all fights, more even rounds will lead to more Draws than assigning controversial winner and losers overall, which is more palatable imo (draws compared to arbitrary losers that is).

For as long as we use humans as judges, there will always be inconsistent criterion applied, resulting in controversy. The best we can do with human judges is to control the damage done by them (i.e. with 10 10s -> more Draws)
 
That was a fight I watched well after the fact. A huge amount of Floyd detractors claimed it was a clear win for Castillo. So naturally I was expecting either a dubious decision or a toss up. When I actually saw the fight I had Floyd winning by at least 2 rounds, close but not that close.
 
Need to re watch but I remember I scored it for Castillo in a close one and I'm a huge Floyd fan, I love his style. Altho giving it to Floyd is far from any robbery talk. I just thought Castillo kinda took it to Floyd in that one and Floyd was pushed to the limit and it ended in a drawish type fight where you can score it either way.

I should actually rewatch that fight, I remember it being a pretty fun fight w/ some theatrics w/ the ref you mentioned, Nova.
 
People do sometimes forget that Castillo gave away the first 4 rounds clearly (in my view, the first 5, but the 5th was close). There aren't any of those 4 rounds that you can reasonably give to him. If you look at the fight overall, Castillo from round 6-10 was very much the better fighter, though. Castillo's real success didn't really come from him generating a ton of offense (I'd argue other fighters generated as much if not more against Mayweather at certain points in their fights), but from how much he muted Floyd's offense, particularly his counter-punching and actually had Floyd "running" (as in moving excessively without much purpose, which Floyd has essentially never done in his career). Floyd did eventually stop moving around and stood in and fought for the last 3 rounds. How you score those last three rounds determines who you'll have winning. The point deductions make the scoring a bit complicated, but it's very much a could've gone either way type of fight. Like he did in other fights in his career (both Johnston fights, the Casamayor fight), Castillo made things hard on himself by starting late.

I still think Castillo had the best footwork of any Floyd opponent. If he started earlier in several fights of his career and was more disciplined in and out of the ring, Castillo could have been a really special fighter, I think (as it stands, he's a borderline HoFer). His overall offensive skillset could have had a bit more to it, but he cut the ring as well as any fighter in recent memory once he got going (sadly, that was often around round 5).
 
JayE said:
People do sometimes forget that Castillo gave away the first 4 rounds clearly (in my view, the first 5, but the 5th was close). There aren't any of those 4 rounds that you can reasonably give to him. If you look at the fight overall, Castillo from round 6-10 was very much the better fighter, though. Castillo's real success didn't really come from him generating a ton of offense (I'd argue other fighters generated as much if not more against Mayweather at certain points in their fights), but from how much he muted Floyd's offense, particularly his counter-punching and actually had Floyd "running" (as in moving excessively without much purpose, which Floyd has essentially never done in his career). Floyd did eventually stop moving around and stood in and fought for the last 3 rounds. How you score those last three rounds determines who you'll have winning. The point deductions make the scoring a bit complicated, but it's very much a could've gone either way type of fight. Like he did in other fights in his career (both Johnston fights, the Casamayor fight), Castillo made things hard on himself by starting late.

I still think Castillo had the best footwork of any Floyd opponent. If he started earlier in several fights of his career and was more disciplined in and out of the ring, Castillo could have been a really special fighter, I think (as it stands, he's a borderline HoFer). His overall offensive skillset could have had a bit more to it, but he cut the ring as well as any fighter in recent memory once he got going (sadly, that was often around round 5).
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Floyd looked a bit clueless in the middle rounds indeed, which basically never happened otherwise. Even in the first few rounds of Maidana 1 he was more like « I’ll get to him when he has blown his load ».
 
I’ve always seen that as a clear loss for Floyd. The other one he escaped with was the DLH fight. I’ve seen it a few times and try as I might, I can never get out of scoring it a draw.
 
BoxingMMA said:
I’ve always seen that as a clear loss for Floyd. The other one he escaped with was the DLH fight. I’ve seen it a few times and try as I might, I can never get out of scoring it a draw.
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Floyd handled Oscar pretty good. Especially in the 2nd half of the fight when Oscar lost stamina. Oscar wasn't doing any damage or landing anything meaningful when he had Floyd on the ropes.
Maidana came much closer to beating Floyd.
 
defjaam said:
Floyd handled Oscar pretty good. Especially in the 2nd half of the fight when Oscar lost stamina. Oscar wasn't doing any damage or landing anything meaningful when he had Floyd on the ropes.
Maidana came much closer to beating Floyd.
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Stamina was indeed a key factor, the other one being Floyd’s timing Oscar’s jab and countering it with the right after the first few rounds. As always, great adjusments.
 
Hagler said:
Stamina was indeed a key factor, the other one being Floyd’s timing Oscar’s jab and countering it with the right after the first few rounds. As always, great adjusments.
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I think a lot of people think Oscar is winning the rounds because he's roughing up Floyd on the ropes... He's not though. Floyd is the best I've seen when on the ropes.
 
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