Revisionism on Vitor vs Rumble

Nobody is saying it was a foregone conclusion that Vitor should have won. The comments are that the win over rumble does little to boost his ranking in the division because
a) rumble was unranked at MW, LHW, & Rumbleweight.
b) rumble was dehydrated & had to stay partially dehydrated until the next afternoon (weirdest stipulation ever. has that ever happened in a ufc bout?).
c) the fucking fight was fixed.

Maybe if Vitor beat Chael, Stann, Bisping, Munoz, Weidman, Okami, Boestch, Costa, Lombard, Leben, or any middleweight of note in the last 3 years, you wouldnt have to milk unranked, fixed fights so hard
 
I'm tired of the claim that he was "gifted" a title shot at MW.

He destroyed Franklin and Lindland in consecutive fights--that's enough to earn you a shot in the anemic MW division.

Exactly. No one else was busting down Anderson's door at that time. Okami and Marquardt had been derailed by Sonnen and Henderson went to SF. Given the circumstances at the time, Belfort was totally worthy of his title shot against Silva.
 
Nobody is saying it was a foregone conclusion that Vitor should have won. The comments are that the win over rumble does little to boost his ranking in the division because
a) rumble was unranked at MW, LHW, & Rumbleweight.
b) rumble was dehydrated & had to stay partially dehydrated until the next afternoon (weirdest stipulation ever. has that ever happened in a ufc bout?).
c) the fucking fight was fixed.

Maybe if Vitor beat Chael, Stann, Bisping, Munoz, Weidman, Okami, Boestch, Costa, Lombard, Leben, or any middleweight of note in the last 3 years, you wouldnt have to milk unranked, fixed fights so hard

I will ignore the fixed fight part because that is lunatic conspiracy theory.

Who decides what boosts a fighter's rankings?

If you look at this thread NOT A SINGLE PERSON would put Stann, Munoz, Boestch, Costa or Leben at better betting odds against Belfort, than the ones Rumble actually had.
 
I can't speak for anyone else on the matter. My position before the weigh-ins was that it was an interesting fight, but it would be hard to take anything from it because neither guy's place in the division was remotely clear. My position after hearing that Rumble would be cutting weight again the day of the fight was that I didn't think the commissions would allow it were the fight taking place in the US. My position after the fight was that I wanted to forget it, between the abysmal refereeing and the weigh-in shenanigans, which together made it an utter embarrassment for the sport.

But, I did think Vitor Belfort showed more heart and drive in that fight than he had in his entire career up until that point, and I thought that was a very, very good sign.

I do think a bit of revision may actually be fair in this case. Some people (not myself) may have held the opinion that the additional weight would be an advantage going into the fight, but it's hard to imagine anyone holding that opinion after watching the fight. Rumble has always had gas tank issues, but in that fight he was huffing and puffing about a minute in. Whether it was the big weight cut, or cutting weight a second time the day of the fight, I think we'd have to be pretty naive to pretend Rumble wasn't affected.

As for Franklin, I don't think it meant anything towards a Middleweight title shot, but consistently hold it was a great win, certainly his best since Herring in 2001, and probably the best of his entire career.

As for Lindland, it was a good win. I think some revision may be fair here too. Lindland was hyped, but largely as an unknown commodity in the division and looking at his fights since it's hard not to draw the conclusion that his best days were behind him. Even so, I don't think the Lindland fight should be written off at all, since it's almost certainly Belfort's best win at MW.
 
I won $200 on a $100 bet Vitor within the distance

meeeeemoriesssss
 
if I understood the point of the TS, he's completely wrong. There's nothing wrong claiming a fight is difficult before and easy after, depending on the way the victory happens. Mainly if it's decided by someone's fault. Vitor win against Rumble was almost as unmeritorious as the Randy Couture one
 
Last edited:
I was hoping Vitor would demolish him for the repeated weight cheating, but the fact of the matter is the blatant ref cheating stains that win a bit. Never have I seen a ref pander to an audience/for one fighter THAT badly... completely indefensible imo. Honestly smacked of a backroom deal to punish/release AJ in response to his blatant inability to make weight at 2 weight classes.
Pretty much. The stand ups were ridiculous. Vitor probably would have ended up winning anyway because it seemed as if Rumble didn't even have to the gas tank to lay and pray for 3 rounds. But the fact remains that the stand ups were some of the quickest I've ever seen. If all fights were reffed like that then Jon Fitch might have a losing record in the UFC.


Yeah, I agree that the standups were inappropriate. I still think that Vitor would have won but that is a different issue. In any case this only shows how dangerous Rumble is.

However, when most people dismiss Rumble as a win they bring up other stuff, which is to argue that Rumble was an easy fight: unranked, no cardio, bad weight cut, etc.
 
I can't speak for anyone else on the matter. My position before the weigh-ins was that it was an interesting fight, but it would be hard to take anything from it because neither guy's place in the division was remotely clear. My position after hearing that Rumble would be cutting weight again the day of the fight was that I didn't think the commissions would allow it were the fight taking place in the US. My position after the fight was that I wanted to forget it, between the abysmal refereeing and the weigh-in shenanigans, which together made it an utter embarrassment for the sport.

But, I did think Vitor Belfort showed more heart and drive in that fight than he had in his entire career up until that point, and I thought that was a very, very good sign.

I do think a bit of revision may actually be fair in this case. Some people (not myself) may have held the opinion that the additional weight would be an advantage going into the fight, but it's hard to imagine anyone holding that opinion after watching the fight. Rumble has always had gas tank issues, but in that fight he was huffing and puffing about a minute in. Whether it was the big weight cut, or cutting weight a second time the day of the fight, I think we'd have to be pretty naive to pretend Rumble wasn't affected.

As for Franklin, I don't think it meant anything towards a Middleweight title shot, but consistently hold it was a great win, certainly his best since Herring in 2001, and probably the best of his entire career.

As for Lindland, it was a good win. I think some revision may be fair here too. Lindland was hyped, but largely as an unknown commodity in the division and looking at his fights since it's hard not to draw the conclusion that his best days were behind him. Even so, I don't think the Lindland fight should be written off at all, since it's almost certainly Belfort's best win at MW.


I see what you are saying but things are tricky to analyze after the fight.

Rumble hit Vitor with some pretty big shots, especially when he dove into his guard. Had Vitor gone lights out with one of those punches the memory of that fight would have been of Rumble cheating by having extra power with the extra weight that he had, and nobody would be talking about him gassing.
 
if I understood the point of the TS, he's completely wrong. There's nothing wrong claiming a fight is difficult before and easy after, depending on the way the victory happens. Mainly if it's decided by someone's fault. Vitor win against Rumble was almost as unmeritorious the Randy Couture one

You are clearly a strong supporter of revisionism.
 
For some reason? Vitor fans simply ignore the fact he was gifted not one but TWO title shots. Winning at Franklin weight with an awkward strike shouldn't get you a shot at the GOAT, and beating a clearly depleted Rumble and homeless Akiyama shouldn't afford you a title shot with Jones.

You realize your posts are just making the OP that much better right? You're doing exactly what TS is talking about lol
 
And I'm beginning to believe you guys don't know what revisionism is. It only happens when the same thing changes with time. Odd(how the fight will be) is one thing and fact(how the fight was) is another.
 
And I'm beginning to believe you guys don't know what revisionism is. It only happens when the same thing changes with time. Odd(how the fight will be) is one thing and fact(how the fight was) is another.

Revisionism: The reevaluation of one's experiences with a hindsight bias

As in, at the time of the fight, Belfort beating Johnson seemed like a good win for Belfort. Looking back at it now, Johnson was dehydrated/overrated/not ufc material/not worth his ranking and therefore the win is not impressive at all.
 
Revisionism: The reevaluation of one's experiences with a hindsight bias

As in, at the time of the fight, Belfort beating Johnson seemed like a good win for Belfort. Looking back at it now, Johnson was dehydrated/overrated/not ufc material/not worth his ranking and therefore the win is not impressive at all.

Anyone who thinks Anthony Johnson isn't UFC material is an idiot. The guy's a freak. His only issue was his weight cutting. He is 100% UFC-worthy
 
Nobody is saying it was a foregone conclusion that Vitor should have won. The comments are that the win over rumble does little to boost his ranking in the division because
a) rumble was unranked at MW, LHW, & Rumbleweight.
b) rumble was dehydrated & had to stay partially dehydrated until the next afternoon (weirdest stipulation ever. has that ever happened in a ufc bout?).
c) the fucking fight was fixed.

Maybe if Vitor beat Chael, Stann, Bisping, Munoz, Weidman, Okami, Boestch, Costa, Lombard, Leben, or any middleweight of note in the last 3 years, you wouldnt have to milk unranked, fixed fights so hard

Ugh.
 
It wasnt fixed but the standups were a bit premature to say the least. But, wouldnt have mattered, Johnson was done in four minutes either way, he wouldnt have finished Belfort before gassing.
 
Revisionism: The reevaluation of one's experiences with a hindsight bias
the odds were one experience and the fight was another. Not revisionism. If they were going to fight again, I bet the odds would be similar to those, if not worse for Vitor.

As in, at the time of the fight, Belfort beating Johnson seemed like a good win for Belfort. Looking back at it now, Johnson was dehydrated/overrated/not ufc material/not worth his ranking and therefore the win is not impressive at all.
I have not been reading this in this forum
 
Did you profit 200? Or get 200 back total? Cuz +200 on a Vitor stoppage would have been amazing odds.

it was +200 I couldnt believe my eyes, I was gonna put a bit of money on Vitor to win outright but once Rumble didnt come remotely close to making weight I knew he wasnt going the distance
 
the odds were one experience and the fight was another. Not revisionism. If they would be fighting again, I bet the odds would be similar, if not worse for Vitor.


I'm actually not reading this in this forum

I was re-phrasing part of the OP:

The standard attitude here in Sherdog these days is to treat Rumble as a borderline can, and to state that it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to lose that fight because he missed weight by so much.

That attitude is what he is referring to as revisionism and that he disagrees with applying revisionism to this particular fight. I personally think it's appropriate to change your mind about some fights in hindsight, but not this one. Belfort earned the win and it wasn't a walk-over.
 
it was +200 I couldnt believe my eyes, I was gonna put a bit of money on Vitor to win outright but once Rumble didnt come remotely close to making weight I knew he wasnt going the distance

Well yeah, man, I wouldn't have predicted that fight to go the distance in any situation. Awesome bet! Those are the kinda odds you gotta look for when you're betting. Tough to find though.
 
Back
Top