Revisionism on Vitor vs Rumble

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by rlm81, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. rlm81

    rlm81 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ok, I am pretty tired of the revisionism related to the Vitor vs Rumble fight.

    The standard attitude here in Sherdog these days is to treat Rumble as a borderline can, and to state that it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to lose that fight because he missed weight by so much. (ironically, some of the people who say that go on and say that Rumble would have won if not for the standups).

    Some facts:
    - Rumble fought at pretty much even odds against Vitor in Brazil. That's pretty much the same odds that Bisping (arguably the #1 contender in the weight class) is fighting Vitor also in Brazil.
    - Those odds barely changed AFTER the weight in debacle
    - Most of the people here in Sherdog were actually pissed off and calling Rumble a cheat because he would have the unfair advantage (15lb on Vitor). Only a small minority brought up the possibility of that being bad for him. For evidence of this point just look at this thread:
    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/vitor-205-6-rumble-211-weight-1966793/showthread.php?t=1966793

    Simple question: which other MW fighters (other than AS of course) would have fought at even odds with Belfort in Brazil? Certainly not Munoz or Boetsch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  2. K1HerosNakamura

    K1HerosNakamura Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2007
    Messages:
    5,516
    Likes Received:
    243
    Fight the good fight against revisionism my man. It is the most toxic of all the bullshit that goes down on here.
     
  3. Mikeyz

    Mikeyz Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    11,934
    Likes Received:
    562
    Nice DP TS. you got that pretty quickly
     
  4. Substance Abuse

    Substance Abuse Plutonium Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    83,978
    Likes Received:
    41,161
    Location:
    Constellation Funk.
    Maybe the revisionism should relate to the unwarranted stand-ups in that fight by Miragliotta that gave Belfort a chance to win the fight earlier than he probably would have once Johnson gassed.

    In the end, Johnson is a front runner. However, he is a very talented one. He usually wilts as fights go on and his tank begins to deplete. He doesn't deal with pressure well either.

    I think Okami, Weidman and Sonnen would be favored over Belfort in Brazil.
     
  5. Tedarch82

    Tedarch82 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    190
    Location:
    London,uk
    At the moment maybe Weidmann?I think Lombard wouldn't be too far behind Vitors odds either.
     
  6. melvinj0

    melvinj0 Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    20,537
    Likes Received:
    16,286
    Johnson is a beast, I could see him eventually becoming a contender at 205.
     
  7. trane

    trane Red Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    8,082
    Likes Received:
    10
    So true.
     
  8. Jay Jay

    Jay Jay Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    A lot of people on Sherdog just don't like giving credit to Vitor for some reason. They rag on his record ("Oh he has 0 top 10 win at MW") while turning a blind eye to his TALENT, which anyone with a great read on MMA should be able to appreciate

    These people discredit his win over Rich Franklin ("OHH, it was at a CATCHWEIGHT...So we can conveniently discount that fight because it doesn't help our argument. DERP") or Rumble Johnson ("RUMBLE missed weight badly and that was his first MW fight"). If you check the facts, Vitor fought at catchweight to accomodate Franklin, and he also made the 185lbs for the Rumble fight.

    When I hear stuff like "Vitor has one win in MW" and shit like that, I just shake my head because these idiotic people show inability, and worse unwillingness, to show more depth in their analyses
     
  9. spid3yo

    spid3yo Guest

    Betting lines have little to do with who's the better fighter. People make that argument all the time, but it usually isn't valid.

    Simply dismissing Rumbles physical condition isn't very wise either.
     
  10. dropshot001

    dropshot001 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    8,547
    Likes Received:
    2
    Agrees. Vitor is often disrespected on here even though he is incredibly talented and has been successful.
     
  11. spid3yo

    spid3yo Guest

    For some reason? Vitor fans simply ignore the fact he was gifted not one but TWO title shots. Winning at Franklin weight with an awkward strike shouldn't get you a shot at the GOAT, and beating a clearly depleted Rumble and homeless Akiyama shouldn't afford you a title shot with Jones.
     
  12. rlm81

    rlm81 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    7
    Betting odds have been proven to be a much more reliable predictor of an event's outcome than any alternative (pundit's opinions, surveys, rankings, etc), not only in sports but also political elections and other events.

    Check the link if you don't believe me

    http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/re...ets wolfers/13 prediction markets wolfers.pdf
     
  13. rlm81

    rlm81 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    7
    There you are, more revisionism.

    Beating Franklin when Vitor did it was pretty much like beating Sonnen now, or even more. 6 months Prior Franklin was ranked #2 MW, and was #7LHW at the time.

    You seem to forget that Vitor fought Jones at UFC 152 only because tons of LHW fighters refused that fight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  14. trane

    trane Red Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    8,082
    Likes Received:
    10
    Like someone else said Vitor fought Franklin at a catchweight to accommodate Franklin, and now people want to act like it doesn't count...I think you are exactly the type of person TC had in mind when he made this thread.

    They also needed someone to fight Jones. He didn't "earn" a title shot, nor is anybody claiming he did. UFC needed someone to fight Jones and that's the end of it. It's not about getting a gift or whatever.
     
  15. wlu29

    wlu29 Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    19,697
    Likes Received:
    2,193
    i thought the stand up was fine

    weidman would be favourite

    okami and sonnen even odds
     
  16. SinisterSpider

    SinisterSpider The weak suffer what they must

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Messages:
    13,893
    Likes Received:
    311
    Location:
    Curitiba, Brazil
    sonnen vs vitor is a fight i very much want to see

    :eek:
     
  17. rlm81

    rlm81 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    7
    Well, Sonnen has been dissing Vitor these days, probably to build up a future fight.

    Sounds like a pretty good fight if both lose their current scheduled ones.
     
  18. Marx Marvelous

    Marx Marvelous Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    1
    Before that fight, I actually favoured AJ to win. Obviously I was pretty wrong, but that was a quality win for Belfort over an opponent who would beat most of the ufc mw/lhw roster. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
     
  19. Deffid

    Deffid BURN THEM ALL #stillmyqueen

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    34,876
    Likes Received:
    54,276
    Location:
    Merkelny
    They also act like Vitor got bullied around and outwrestled badly by Johnson, when in reality he got thrown down once after a highkick and once after a weird scramble, defended 5 other takedown attempts and then beat AJ.

    It was a good win, the Franklin fight was a great win at the time. Most people also overlook the Lindland win, which was great at the time.
     
  20. WalkenWouldOwn

    WalkenWouldOwn Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    32,675
    Likes Received:
    12,570
    Didn't read the OP, just going to use this as an excuse to bring some of these gems back-

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.