Reverse Omoplata

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Aesopian, Nov 19, 2005.

  1. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    I felt this topic was worth its own thread following the discussion here. I know I've also seen quite a few people trying to figure out what the reverse omoplata is (and I've answered their questions before), so I'd like to give it some more attention.

    First off, what's a reverse omoplata? No, it's not a counter to the omoplata (which I've had people ask). Go here and find out:

    http://www.tampabjj.com/2005/11/17/reverse-omoplata/

    Some people call it an "inverted" omoplata; maybe that makes more sense to you.

    Looking at just the finishing position, you can see that it's "reverse" or "backwards" to the omoplata in a couple ways. A normal omoplata ends with them facedown, and you looking facing towards their head. A reverse omoplata ends with them face up, and you looking towards their feet.

    You can also think of it as the backwards version of the americana with the legs from modified scarf hold (seen here). It's a kimura with the legs from reverse modified scarf hold.

    My other purpose for this thread is seeing how else others have been doing this move. The colinm's Superplata where you grab their wrist sounds awesome. I'm hoping for me stuff like that.

    Here's my addition: Thinking about it as a kimura with the legs from reverse modified scarf hold, you can see how to apply it by just putting their arm under your leg like you would if you were facing the other way and going for the americana with your legs. The hardest part is getting their arm trapped deep enough. You'll often only get a straight elbow lock, which is easier to escape. You'll probably have to let them roll away from you a bit to get enough space to hook your leg around their arm deep enough.

    If you've been using twister side control from Eddie Bravo's book, you might want to play around with that, since the position are almost the same as reverse modified scarf hold.

    Anyone else have something to add, or is this really as obscure of a technique as it seems to have been?
     
  2. Cojofl

    Cojofl Brown Belt

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    I hadn't seen it before. It looks a good turtle busting technique for judo. I'll give it a try next time i'm training.
     
  3. Green Whale

    Green Whale Green Belt

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    Saulo is sick at this move. He's tapped Jamie Levine in a no gi tourney and also James Casas a month ago in a BJJ tourney with it. It looks extremely painful and the opportunity to do it doesn't really even present itself too often.

    www.greenwhaleproductions.com
     
  4. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    If you've seen Marcelo Garcia's gi instructional, you know the guard pass where you step over their arm to trap it, then roll under them for the crucifix. I've been doing this, but instead finishing like that, I lift their butt and flip them all the way over so they land on fours. Their arm is always in the trigger position for the reverse omoplata from here.
     
  5. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    thanks for the props, but lol at your crediting me for a new move - its only a very small variation. i must have miscommunicated - its still the same reverse omoplata lock but i just mistakenly called it a superplata because its on before you roll completely through. the only thing i do differently (say you hve your left leg all tangled with his right arm) is reach down in front of myself with my left arm and hold his wrist, so i can swing my other leg over like a pendulum to gain momentum and not worry about losing the arm. according to the link you don't need to do that, only keep your leg bent to keep his arm trapped, but i havent had a change to experiment with it yet. anyway, good thread...its so refeshing.
     
  6. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    You've got to start naming moves after yourself if you want to be famous!

    Does anyone else do this move, or are colinm and I just too cool?
     
  7. TJS

    TJS Brown Belt

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    I remember one local fighter hear tapped someone in a pro MMA fight with a reverse Oma-plata.

    I was show it once but dont remember much of it
     
  8. QingTian

    QingTian Purple Belt

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    looks like this takes an assload of time to setup and requires an opponent that doesn't move.
     
  9. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    And yet I still get it daily, and even got it three times in a row once against a wrestler who definitely didn't sit still. The setup can be as long or short as you take to do it, and it doesn't really matter how much your opponent tries to resist since you have control at each point.
     
  10. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    Let's really look at each step in the move, and the typical resistance you'll get from someone trying to thrash and muscle their way out:

    You have side ride, he can buck and try to roll you but if you know how to maintain the postion (control the wrist, chest on his back, base out), you won't lose it.

    When you go to trap his arm, your knee drives into his arm and your foot digs to catch it. Your legs are stronger than his one arm, and with your superior position, you have a good chance of getting it.

    Once you get his arm trapped, he might grab his hands together and try to take you down, which you can counter simply by posting with your free arm.

    If he keeps holding his hands together, you can drop your hips and straighten your leg to break his grip. Legs are stronger than arms.

    He can try to stop his arm from being crossed back, but, again, legs are stronger than arms.

    Once his arm is back, he may fight to uncross it, but like it says in with the technique, your legs can always bend to trap it more than he can straighten to remove it.

    During all the previous steps you have still had side ride with wrist control and your chest on his back. Even if you lost some base without your posting leg out, you have his arm trapped and the worst that can happen if he rolls is that you go to the traditional crucifix (on back, face up).

    Now comes the start of the roll. This is the part that freaks most people out, since you think you're giving up all your control, and you think he MUST be able to just pull out or something. But really try this out, and you'll find that most of these problems never really happen when rolling. If you just keep your leg tight to his arm, he's got no real options. It's also such a transitional step that you'll be holding his knee in just a second.

    I've gone with guys who outweight me by 60+ lbs, and had nothing more than my leg trapping their arm (not even grabbing the knee yet) and while they try to pull out and turn away and uncross their arm, I just rode around because I never let the tension go on their arm.

    Once you've grabbed the knee, all the worry over the roll is over. He can thrash and posture and whatever, but you have several ways to roll him. This is covered in detail on the technique page.

    After the roll, his arm is still trapped. You have control of his knee, so he cannot roll out. You keep your hips close to his shoulder so he cannot pull out. Putting your hand (or elbow) in his far armpit and blocking his chest with your chest seals the deal.

    This looks move looks like it needs an unmoving partner because it takes a lot of photos to show each step in detail, but you can still do it on as lively and resisting an opponent as you want, if you have trained each step well. It can be a very dynamic battle to get this, where you're riding and rolling all over the place as they try to buck you and escape.

    Sometimes, I'll take it slow and really secure each position as I go. Each step done one at a time. Each position held for a bit to maintain maximum control.

    Other times I'll want a fast finish and just run through the steps. A lot of the steps turn into one movement as you speed up. Trapping the arm goes straight into crossing it back. The roll starts just as the arm is crossed.

    Like I've said for the very start, you've just got to have faith at first and drill it and try it out, and then you'll see how easy this move really is.
     
  11. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    you can hang out in the crucifix position all day, then all you have to do is switch your legs...its actually not as hard as it seems once you get the mechanics down.

    hendo got lil nog in the crucifix in critical countdown, and it took a great bjj guy like lil nog a while to get out. try it out.
     
  12. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    are u suggesting i pull an eddie bravo?!? jk, jk, i dont want to start that shit again.
     
  13. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Am I wrong in thinking it's basically just a kimura using your legs instead of arms? I know it's technical to get to that point, but it looks pretty straightforward what you're aiming for.
     
  14. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    That is exactly what it is, and thinking about it that way might make it easier to get to.

    It's almost like it would be easier for people to understand this move if you named it something else. When people hear "reverse omoplata" they think "REVERSE + OMOPLATA = OMOPLATA X DIFFICULTY^2". It'd almost be better named as something like "rolling shoulder lock".

    I taught my sister to do this tonight at class, so no one has an excuses for not getting this move any more.
     
  15. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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  16. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    you can also counter a fireman's carry with the crucifix...its pretty self explanatory, the guy puts himself in the position so just slap it on.

    something else ive been messing around with is slapping on an inverted triangle (like you would do if you stepped over his head in sidemount) from the crucifix when you roll to your back. you need to switch your legs like you would for the reverse omoplata, then push your partner's head down and swing your top leg over his face, putting your heel right under his armpit and pushing it deep. then come on top and close your triangle and you can attack the free arm with a kimura (like renzo does to his kickboxing coach in "fight day", but he sets it up from sidemount).
     
  17. JABobo3

    JABobo3 Orange Belt

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    I do a somewhat rare move occasionally, a double! heelhook. Looks very cool.
     
  18. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    I used the superplata this week. The booming voice of colinm came ringing in my head when I felt my sparring partner trying to pull his arm out. "GRAB THE SLEEVE," it said. "GRAB THE SLEEVE AND ROLL."
     
  19. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    Another great kuzure kesa gatame move. I love it. I've been doing the "harai garame", where you go from north south to reverse scarf hold, geting their elbow pointing out off your belly, then "sitting through" the rest of the way and getting your leg over their near leg. You bridge up, and it's like the stankest, nastiest ude garame/key lock you can think of. I love that shit.

    I've done something like this here before, but I didn't even think to try finishing with it at the time. It resulted from a guy trying to roll out of an omoplatta, winding up in a funky bicep slice, trying to wriggle out of that and I just splayed out over him and grabbed his other arm for the Kimura. Hadn't thought about the shortcuts to the situation, but with my Judo background, I often find myself hanging out in some of the different pins while taking a breather or a moment to think during particularly grueling training sessions, and it'll give me something new to try.

    ps- Thanks.
     
  20. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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