Renzo and Igor arrested for beating up bouncer

[Leify]

Japan had been pacified for centuries before judo came, most of the jujutsu was already watered down forms with their practitioners never experiencing actual combat.

The problem with combat arts is that they quickly disappear the moment warfare evolves, and that which remains is just a hollow shell without any adequate form of practice.

Do you think that modern US army would win a XII century war if they were given XII weaponry and told to fight an actual XII century war?

Training methods, weapon use, techniques and tactics, they are all lost, we only know of hwo it worked generally due to archeologists and historians but we lost all fucking detail, is like if BJJ disappeared and then some historians discovered a BJJ book and tried to make a BJJ dojo from there.

All modern martial arts come 95% from sport, most techniques have been rediscovered, reinvented and tweaked by practitioners, not by some mystical shit being handed down from 1000 years ago.

The only ones that dont, are the ones that have been sports for centuries, like mongolian wrestling, sumo, boxing etc

The point is still that the sport aspect evolved out of actual combat in probably a majority of cases, and did so in pretty much all the examples you listed.

Do you really believe that the early Gracies were studying under Maeda so they could create a sport they could use just to compete with each other?

I have very little trouble believing that the early Gracie's were actually middle class thugs who just wanted to know how to beat people's asses and make a living off that knowledge.

 

[Rod1]

The point is still that the sport aspect evolved out of actual combat in probably a majority of cases, and did so in pretty much all the examples you listed.

Do you really believe that the early Gracies were studying under Maeda so they could create a sport they could use just to compete with each other?

I have very little trouble believing that the early Gracie's were actually middle class thugs who just wanted to know how to beat people's asses and make a living off that knowledge.

No, it ws inspired by actual combat, yet im positive that less than 99% of BJJ actually descends from old jujutsu techniques (mostly in gracie combatives) and out of all jujutsu techniques probably less than 90% was descended from actual combat, most of it is preserved in judo katas for combat against armored opponents, which is trained against people who wear no armor considering armored combat had been dead for centuries by the time of Kano.

Even if some techniques do resemble old jujutsu, its most likely these were reinvented, rediscovered or tweaked.

 

[EleazarI**]

Renzo is 47, not 54, and neither of them are "hulking" or are black belts in Karate.

Stay classy, Renzo

Brazilians wont acknowledge their true age like their legit losses

 

[Leify]

No, it ws inspired by actual combat, yet im positive that less than 99% of BJJ actually descends from old jujutsu techniques (mostly in gracie combatives) and out of all jujutsu techniques probably less than 90% was descended from actual combat, most of it is preserved in judo katas for combat against armored opponents, which is trained against people who wear no armor considering armored combat had been dead for centuries by the time of Kano.

Even if some techniques do resemble old jujutsu, its most likely these were reinvented, rediscovered or tweaked.

Uh, you realize that takedowns, pins, joint locks, and chokes are all present in BJJ and were the defining aspects of Japanese ju jitsu as a combat art, right?

Undoubtedly things have been tweaked since feudal Japan. That doesn't erase the likelihood that the armbar was used in armored combat, and so forth.

 

[Rod1]

Uh, you realize that takedowns, pins, joint locks, and chokes are all present in BJJ and were the defining aspects of Japanese ju jitsu as a combat art, right?

Undoubtedly things have been tweaked since feudal Japan. That doesn't erase the likelihood that the armbar was used in armored combat, and so forth.

Just because something was used before doesnt means it descends from it, its most likely a case of reinvention due to the fact that it a sport which is practiced against resisting individuals. Not because they learned from Maeda who learned from another guy, who learned to another guy, add 400 years and who invented while fighting a war in Japan.

If you train BJJ you will know the complexity of the sport and know that in order for the preservation of technique from coach to student to pass properly you need several years of diligent study and a good class size, to think that such prequisites remained unchanged with no monetary support in rural societies for hundreds of years is nothing but a joke.

Just like there are just a few individuals who can properly use XIX century weaponry and even less the further you go back in history, the same happened to combat sports that were actually part of the military.

Reinvention does not means that its part of an unbroken chain and reinvention is usually reserved for the goal of a particular training form, which is the sport.

 

[Rod1]

Brazilians wont acknowledge their true age like their legit losses

Or weight, we all know that 80 year old Helio weighing 90lbs beat a 24 year old Kimura who weighed 300lbs.

 

[nooper]

Brazilians wont acknowledge their true age like their legit losses

Are you suggesting that Renzo Gracie is actually 54 years old?? :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

 

[LaBrian]

I'm curious how Renzo will escape this one. Walking up to a club and assaulting the bouncer on duty is hard to plead not guilty from. Bad decisions all around. Hope he doesn't do any hard time.

Probably pleads out and gets probation/community service and makes a nice settlement payment to the guy who got his arm broken.

 

[robotsonic]

LOL, Rod1 you are stretching hard...

All combat sports exist so that you can kick someones ass better than they can yours. Whether you're doing that in the context of a sport or on the street, it doesn't matter.

Are you honestly implying that when a guy goes to a boxing class it's because in 100% of cases he only wants to fight in the ring under supervision and that self defense in actual combat situations never comes into it? That is as retarded as those guys who say they only buy guns for sport shooting.

 

[Leify]

Just because something was used before doesnt means it descends from it, its most likely a case of reinvention due to the fact that it a sport which is practiced against resisting individuals. Not because they learned from Maeda who learned from another guy, who learned to another guy, add 400 years and who invented while fighting a war in Japan.

If you train BJJ you will know the complexity of the sport and know that in order for the preservation of technique from coach to student to pass properly you need several years of diligent study and a good class size, to think that such prequisites remained unchanged with no monetary support in rural societies for hundreds of years is nothing but a joke.

Just like there are just a few individuals who can properly use XIX century weaponry and even less the further you go back in history, the same happened to combat sports that were actually part of the military.

Reinvention does not means that its part of an unbroken chain and reinvention is usually reserved for the goal of a particular training form, which is the sport.

Concerns like those are moot. What if the nuclear holocaust happens, and now the berimbolo is an effective technique to kill mutants? Born out of sport? What if hundreds of years pass and everyone forgets the berimbolo, until Paulo Miyao XI finds photos of his ancestor's competing and starts using the berimbolo to combat mutants? Born out of combat?

Does it matter? The techniques we use today that share an origin with techniques used in actual combat are utilized because they allow you to maim, subdue, and kill. Just because we have a sport that surrounds these techniques with rules where my goal is to win, rather than kill, doesn't mean that armbar's don't exist for the sole purpose of destroying someone's elbow, a need that arose from combat.

 

[dirtypablo]

Getting into a fight with a bouncer because youre butthurt you couldnt get into a club is hardly a self defense situation.

 

[jcandoitbig]

Getting into a fight with a bouncer because youre butthurt you couldnt get into a club is hardly a self defense situation.

for real. it's really pathetic in my opinion

 

[Rod1]

LOL, Rod1 you are stretching hard...

All combat sports exist so that you can kick someones ass better than they can yours. Whether you're doing that in the context of a sport or on the street, it doesn't matter.

Are you honestly implying that when a guy goes to a boxing class it's because in 100% of cases he only wants to fight in the ring under supervision and that self defense in actual combat situations never comes into it? That is as retarded as those guys who say they only buy guns for sport shooting.

If people wanted to get better at fighting they usually trained or equipped themselves with the weaponry and tactics used to properly fight in those eras.

Self-defense in which historical context? Do you honestly think that people in the wild west would decide "Well i need self-defens better learn boxing", no they bought a fucking gun.

Concerns like those are moot. What if the nuclear holocaust happens, and now the berimbolo is an effective technique to kill mutants? Born out of sport? What if hundreds of years pass and everyone forgets the berimbolo, until Paulo Miyao XI finds photos of his ancestor's competing and starts using the berimbolo to combat mutants? Born out of combat?

That makes absolutely no-sense whatsoever.

Born out of combat means tried and tested in actual combat and techniques perfected to solve battlefield issues, its called an arms race.

BJJ was not born out of combat, it was self-made in private dojos of a middle to upper class family in Rio.

Does it matter? The techniques we use today that share an origin with techniques used in actual combat are utilized because they allow you to maim, subdue, and kill. Just because we have a sport that surrounds these techniques with rules where my goal is to win, rather than kill, doesn't mean that armbar's don't exist for the sole purpose of destroying someone's elbow, a need that arose from combat.

We use sportive techniques born in an sportive enviroment, using these outside of these circumstances doesnt gives you street cred, just like going around stabbing people with a rapier as an olympic fencer wont make you a street cred XVIII century duelist, or going around beating people with baseball bats as a baseball player or shooting people as a sport shooter etc etc.

And not all guns are made for killing, there are guns made specifically for sport, which have no use whatsoever in any battlefield.

It just makes you a bully.

 

[Jukai]

The bouncer should have known better than to challenge Renzo. And uh, his four friends. And a cone.

 

[Cris]

Wait what ?? I thought Nirvana was from the US, not Japan ?

lol, really ? i am embarassed reading this

 

[Leify]

That makes absolutely no-sense whatsoever.

Born out of combat means tried and tested in actual combat and techniques perfected to solve battlefield issues, its called an arms race.

It would behoove you to take my mutant apocalypse scenario seriously. We're talking about an situation where the ground may actually be made out of used HIV needles and lava, after all.

BJJ was not born out of combat, it was self-made in private dojos of a middle to upper class family in Rio.

A middle/upper class family in Rio with some members who also happened to get into street fights and fight in vale tudo matches pretty routinely.

We use sportive techniques born in an sportive enviroment, using these outside of these circumstances doesnt gives you street cred, just like going around stabbing people with a rapier as an olympic fencer wont make you a street cred XVIII century duelist, or going around beating people with baseball bats as a baseball player or shooting people as a sport shooter etc etc.

I can just as easily say that we're using combat techniques in a sportive environment, except I have historical context on my side.

 

[Rod1]

It would behoove you to take my mutant apocalypse scenario seriously. We're talking about an situation where the ground may actually be made out of used HIV needles and lava, after all.

Uh?

A middle/upper class family in Rio with some members who also happened to get into street fights and fight in vale tudo matches pretty routinely.

First, Vale Tudo is a sport, is done in a ring, with rules and a referee.

Also routinely? Yet you cant probably name 3 foes per Gracie before the 90s.

I can just as easily say that we're using combat techniques in a sportive environment, except I have historical context on my side.

And you would be wrong, because BJJ comes from Judo and Judo was created as a sport.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Wow, so Renzo used 18th century Japanese battlefield tactics and weaponry on this guy? Dang.

 

[Rod1]

Wow, so Renzo used 18th century Japanese battlefield tactics and weaponry on this guy? Dang.

Its XVI century tactics we all know that bouncers actually wear samurai armor and katanas.

 

[Stev3]

So many errors in the article

Examples: "Hulking" and "Top MMA" fighters and "Should of known better"