Remember - WMMA has been around for more than 15 years, Ronda is far from the female Royce

[Captain Herb]

Despite the knowledge and training readily available in mixed martial arts, Ronda is still just a judoka. The sport has passed her by, just as it did Royce.

 

[podsox]

Wmma is basically dead now

 

[BigMuffler]

Despite the knowledge and training readily available in mixed martial arts, Ronda is still just a judoka. The sport has passed her by, just as it did Royce.

Not exactly the same thing I was arguing aganst but I'll bite. She lost to bad style matchups for her, would you call Brock Royce for running into bad matchups?

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

That's not fair at all considering her achievements in Judo - a martial art - and her UFC success.

The biggest difference is that BJJ is a better, more practical and important martial art than Judo. Ronda used elements of her Judo to used BJJ. Royce Gracie would literally cling to people's legs or flop to his back like a fucking moron.

He may have been important; but Ronda is certainly the more complete fighter.

Exactly, BJJ is a mixed martial art while Judo really is not.

RE being not fair considering her achievements: My point is that maybe 1% of girls out there will do a martial art where as much more men do as it is encouraged in them and largely discouraged in women (see Fedor's comments). Things are changing now with the times but when Ronda grew up, virtually no women actively pursued martial arts, and those that did succeeded. You have a much higher chance of being successful while the competition is less.

In the way of Royce being less complete, I'll have to disagree, I think he was smarter and stuck to what he was good at, hence him having a better record against more accomplished martial artists. Royce just KO'd Ken (who is way better than Bethe) but we aren't all calling him "the next Tyson" because we look at men's MMA realistically and have a much greater sense of perspective on it. If Royce wanted to box, he could, but it would be foolish because time spent learning boxing would have taken away from his time on the mat and got him into a situation like last night. Royce NEVER got embarrassed like Ronda did last night and that is because he was a smart fighter.

However, I do agree that Ronda and Royce were never the best in the world. They only appeared to be the best because that is what the UFC wanted us to think. Royce, like Ronda, would never have had his mystic if Royce was competing against the best Sambo practitioners, the best catch wrestlers and the best BJJ fighters on a continual basis. The game was rigged from the git-go, just like the UFC's BW division. This is no surprise tho as this is what modern prize fighting is, the reason Floyd has 0 losses and Sugar Ray Robinson had 19 losses.

 

[Source]

Ronda is the single most important WMMA fighter in history..... and no-one will ever eclipse her because she single handedly got them to the UFC.

but I agree with you, she is not a WMMA pioneer by an stretch of the imagination

Hey would you please stop let not make this us agreeing on points a habit. I'm getting worried I'm getting soft.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Hey would you please stop making us agreeing on points a habit? I'm getting worried I'm getting soft.

lol.... must be a New Year thing

normal service will resume in the near future lol

 

[AndStill]

She's more like Brock or even Conor, a specialist amazing in one area but flawed in others, who eventually ran into bad style matchups after dominating with her specialty.

She's not an "Amazing" specialist. She's a Judoka who won the Junior world championship in 2004, Second place in World championships in 2007 and Olympic Bronze medal in 2008

An amazing Judo specialist would be:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saori_Yoshida
Greatest female Judoka: Five Olympics : 2 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze. World champion 7 times

 

[Source]

lol.... must be a New Year thing

normal service will resume in the near future lol

In the sprit of the new year, I'll spread some Alizee cheer.

 

[Captain Herb]

Not exactly the same thing I was arguing aganst but I'll bite. She lost to bad style matchups for her, would you call Brock Royce for running into bad matchups?

These days a dominant defending champion has to have the tools to deal with any matchup. That's why it will be interesting to watch someone like Conor go on a title defence run. Conor knows that he lacks in some areas and is keen to address his shortcomings. Ronda was not self inquisitive regarding her weaknesses and she never showed a desire or an ability to develop a well rounded skill set. She simply thought she couldn't be beaten and did not need to evolve and progress. This arrogance was her primary undoing.

 

[BigMuffler]

These days a dominant defending champion has to have the tools to deal with any matchup. That's why it will be interesting to watch someone like Conor go on a title defence run. Conor knows that he lacks in some areas and is keen to address his shortcomings. Ronda was not self inquisitive regarding her weaknesses and she never showed a desire or an ability to develop a well rounded skill set. She simply thought she couldn't be beaten and did not need to evolve and progress. This arrogance was her primary undoing.

She improved her offensive striking, I think she was babied by her camp who didn't put her through the wringer and make her improve her defense. Maybe she was too much of a diva to do serious sparring, but I wouldn't know anything about that.

 

[Captain Herb]

She improved her offensive striking, I think she was babied by her camp who didn't put her through the wringer and make her improve her defense. Maybe she was too much of a diva to do serious sparring, but I wouldn't know anything about that.

I'm no expert, but her offensive striking has never appeared to me to be above the level you might find in a tough lady contest or a celebrity boxing match. It worked because her opponents were desperate to avoid the takedown. Against accomplished strikers she looks like she never trained a day in her life. And you're right, her defence is nothing but running straight through punches to grab the clinch. But this is because she always got away with it and didn't want to imagine a matchup where it wouldn't work. Her Coach is absolutely to blame but so is she. If his job is to coddle her ego and he knows she doesn't like to be challenged or questioned, that is the quality of training she will get from him.