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Relson Gracie Article (New Tournament System)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by tf, Aug 9, 2010.

  1. tf

    tf Inside BJJ Podcast

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    I just published my article on Relson Gracie.

    Relson is old-school Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and is starting a new tournament with modified rules to change Jiu-Jitsu back to the vision of his Father Helio. He talks a lot about the current state of Jiu-Jitsu and how he hopes to change it.

    There's lots of good stuff in this one. I promise.

    It's the feature story at:

    Inside BJJ
     
  2. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    Interesting article.

    In some ways he comes off kind of whiny, very much like the stuff coming some of the other Gracies on Helio's side. Claiming that the athletes don't know the rules because they can't read English is pretty silly. The English version of the rules is basically the Portuguese rules put into Babelfish. Also, if the IBJJF refs are conspiring against Rhalan, that will be officially the first time ever that the IBJJF robs a Brazilian and gives it to an American. And claiming that it's not fair that regular guys can't win because serious competitors train TOO HARD? I didn't know that training hard was considered unfair now.

    He does raise some valid points though about the athletes getting ripped off. The top black belts really should be treated better. The fact that some of the guys who are the best in the world have to pay airfare + hotel + entry fee to compete is kind of messed up. Steroids also should be controlled more than they are now.

    His actual rules are a mix. Straight knee bars really aren't that dangerous. Heel hooks and neck cranks certainly are, but they are already banned. Wrist locks are in a gray area, but if they were banned I would understand.

    Not giving points for passing half guard is ridiculous. I'd be interested to know what his reasoning for that was.

    The stalling rules make the most sense to me. BJJ basically has no stalling as it is, and it would make sense to enforce stalling more along the lines of Judo or Wrestling. There is nothing wrong with establishing a dominant position (in fact that's a major part of BJJ), but you should have to try to finish eventually. 30 seconds seems fair.

    Only red and black belts can establish rules is confusing. Does this mean they intend to keep changing the rules until they can win again? Once the rules are set, they shouldn't be changing much.

    Black belt referees makes sense if you can find them. What is a high ranking brown? A brown related to the Gracie family? I thought a brown belt was a brown belt, and if you want to be ranked higher, you just get a black belt. I knew white belts loved to distinguish between low whites and high whites, but I didn't know this was popular amongst brown belts too.

    Thanks for the article.
     
  3. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Who goes to the world championship without knowing the rules?

    Where is he going to find all those BB referees? It sounds to me he is going to run small event where BB will be more insterested into coaching their team instead of ref.

    a high brown belt would have to mean 3 stripes and above.
     
  4. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    So in his rules, you will get penalized for holding mount for more than 30 seconds and not attempting a submission or changing position?

    I don't like his proposed rules, and I don't really see the appeal. If he actually starts a different rule set and it becomes somewhat popular, I don't think it's really going to help the sport, only fragment it. I wish he would work on making the current system better instead of trying to start his own.

    I thought he was going to do some kind of innovative submission-only type format. I was pretty disappointed when I read what he was actually proposing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  5. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    I always find it a little ironic when old school guys make a big deal out of stripe distinctions. I was under the impression that stripes for colored belts in general were a fairly recent and non-standard invention.
     
  6. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Oh well, I am just assuming this is what he meant.

    a brown with no stripes would be called a new brown belt

    and a brown with 3-4 stripes would be call an old brown belt.

    putting a requirement as minimum high brown belt and BB as a referee is not gonna solve any problem.

    Have you ever seen a bunch of BB arguing about the rules? all the time.

    what they need to have people sit referee exams and stuff like that.

    I know BBs that do not know anything about competition rules and they are supposed to be referee!
     
  7. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    that's already a rule, if you stall you get penalized. first gets you a penalty and opponent gets an advantage, second offence gets your opponent 2 pts and you a 2nd penalty, and 3rd gets you a DQ.
     
  8. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    edit.
     
  9. Ybot

    Ybot Purple Belt

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    Interesting. I'm considering doing the pro divisions, since it is starting right here in my own town. I'll go for sure. Let you know how it all turns out.
     
  10. juji gatame**

    juji gatame** Brown Belt

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    I agree on the submission win focus but not allowing certain leg locks or penalizing dominant positions would be degrading to the sport. Nobody but Gracie Barra purists would take part in this type of competition.
     
  11. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Did you mean Gracie JJ instead of Barra?
     
  12. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    How is it "stalling" if you are in a dominant position? The guy on bottom should have the burden of escaping. That's the most retarded rule ever, I will never understand it. Thankfully as long as you're grabbing the collar and you at least make it look like you're going for a choke, you're not going to get called for "stalling."

    Maybe the reason I don't get it is because I did Judo first, in Judo if you hold mount on a guy for 25 seconds it's over and YOU win. Why in god's name would you be penalized for it in jiu-jitsu?
     
  13. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    lol, im pretty sure very, very few Gracie Barra guys would want to join Relson's competition.

    The IBJJF (which Relson is bashing) is run by Carlos Gracie Jr., the same guy who runs Gracie Barra.
     
  14. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    It is 20 seconds and then the ref warms you first for inactivity or does he just give a penalty away?

    3 penalty to DQ would mean you have been stalling for 3 x 20 seconds = 1 minute.
     
  15. tf

    tf Inside BJJ Podcast

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    I'll be there too. Should have a table there or something. Ybot - stop by and say hi.
     
  16. JonaMex

    JonaMex Guest

    I doubt Gracie Barra would take part in this.
     
  17. joe90210

    joe90210 Blue Belt

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    the whole accumulating points from each event sounds pretty interesting though
     
  18. juji gatame**

    juji gatame** Brown Belt

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    sorry I meant straight up Gracie JJ guys. Gracie Barra has taken a sport focus over the years.
     
  19. tf

    tf Inside BJJ Podcast

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    Yeah and I also like that the athletes are getting paid. The plan is to grow the prize money as the events grow. It's a pretty good idea.
     
  20. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    even if you have a dominant position, you are expected to finish the fight. you have 20 seconds to "attempt" something.

    it is almost impossible to get rid of someone that just lay on top of you and stalling.

    at the Abhu Adhi Pro JJ, corners were just using a clock and yell the time to the teamate...take down..15 seconds..pass..side control..stay there ..get the points.. 19 seconds...now move...KOB..mount... well you get the idea. they were squezzing every possible seconds from the 20 seconds rule.
     

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