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reasons y u should use strength/phys attributes

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by devante, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    i understand u need to use tech and not lean on ur strength all the time; at the same instance you can't not use ur physical ability or advantages, i respect the fact u can and will face an opp who is stronger and will have to depend on your tech.
    Nonetheless...you can't get away from using the abilities u have, sometimes you can or will face an opp who is better than u or maybe u get caught in a sub and u can't get out of the move tech; if u can muscle or power out, then why not. IF U HAVE AN ADV PHYSICALLY OR TECH..U HAVE TO TAKE ADV OF IT.

    It's like being a boxer w/ko power who insists on just boxing, yeah u got tech and u want to use it; but u don't eschew ur power, especially if u can put people away. U don't get soo carried away w/any tech especially when u have an attribute that can turn the tide.

    Secondly u are shortchanging ur training partners who don't get to see what it is liek to face an explosive or strong opp; when u take away the physical adv and use straight up skills u are not preparing them for an opp who can and will use those adv.

    Once again the boxing analogy if u are gonna fight a tourney where there are alot of punchers u don't train w/speedy guys or tech guys as much; you need to train w/guys who can punch... diff styles present diff probs. Now if u are a grappler used to facing big guys w/great tech but never use their strength or size u are not prepared to deal w/it when u face someone who does...ur not used to the mauling or manhandling u will face..an that lack of exp might be the diff between a win or a loss.

    i am not ragging on anyone jus making what i think is a valid point..if u have an adv and u get away drom it too much u can hurt urself in training and competitions
     
  2. nada

    nada White Belt

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    I believe when you are training and practicing you should emphasize technique and technique only.

    But when it comes to an actual match use everything you got-strength, agression, technique, etc.

    In order to get ready for an actual match, the week or 2 leading before your grappling match start having practice training matches where you use everything you got.

    this oppinion only applies to grappling and not MMA.
     
  3. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    If you got it, use it. Personally I am not a strong guy, so I rely on tchnique, is it wrong to lean on technique and never try to outmuscle a guy? Same thing for muscle, if you are built for it, use your power, just don't forget to learn the techniques or, at some point, somebody is going to expose this weakness.
    Also, this is about learning, if you're not going to bother learning to refine your technique, why go to class? Just lift big and smash people at the tournament, but don't call yourself a grappler; maybe you can be a bb in "Smashling", :)
    At any rate, I'm developing my strength now, but I'm glad I have techniques, so I know what I'm developing my strength for.
     
  4. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    Strength is pretty much instinctive. You don't really need to train to use it. It just comes naturally.

    The reason why people say, "Use technique and not strength" is because using brute force can hinder your progress. I'm 205 pounds and 6 foot tall. Even so I got my butt kicked when I first started Sambo. Part of the reason was that I was actually trying to use techniques from class while others were just doing whatever came naturally. And whenever I tried to actually use a technique, a guard sweep for example, I ended up in a worse situation (guard passed). The guys who used athleticism when they started did much better going live.

    But I knew the techniques would work if I just gave them time. So I kept trying them. And when they started working it paid off...

    I think you know all this already. My point is that strength and athleticism can actually hinder your progress if you rely on them.
     
  5. TJS

    TJS Brown Belt

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    No one is going to tell you not to use your strenght if it comes down to it in a match or fight. but you shouldent train with it.

    If you get used to muscling out of something in class when you cant get out then you are missing the point of learning the technique.
     
  6. jahred

    jahred rarity

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    strength is best for fixing your mistakes. :D

    'oops, fuckin' kimura..' *power out*
     
  7. Corey123

    Corey123 Guest

    I think that when you're training, you should focus alot more on technique then strength. If you just muscle out of everything and use your strength to your advantage in training then you're not going to learn anything and someone bigger/stronger will make you wish you learned a little technique. For fights and matches, I think you should use every advantage you can get...
     
  8. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    IfIf your using strength to power out of techniques all the time, you become used to using strength to power out. The reason you able to power out is probably because the person doing it is not as technically good as they are striving to become.

    If you focus on technique only and do not use strength, then you have a more lethal combination when it comes down to competition and or a real life situation. Strength or technique??? I say why not both.

    This reminds me of a guy at our school who is about 6'3-6'4 ish about 230-245 solid. He could literally tear people in half at will and muscle through just about any one at the school. However he just got is Brown belt last night because he is one of the calmest and technical guys there. He never just uses his strength to push through things, he is a blast to roll with because he isn
     
  9. ClubberLange

    ClubberLange Green Belt

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    plus it's nice being able to play with that 110kg bodybuilder in his first class while remaining half asleep. ;)
    One of the reasons i've started rolling gentler is injuries.
    A month b4 a comp though, I pick the pace right up.
     
  10. jpark4

    jpark4 Yellow Belt

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    Anyother whitebelt in my class said it had to do with physics also. When i closely examined the positions i finally understood exactly what he meant. For Instance, closed guard. The guard consists of the legs trapping the guy's body making him almost immobilized. The feet that are locked behind the snared apponent is intertwined in 6 levers (two knee/calfs, two heels, and two toe joints) by know what foot is on top that give you a big advantage in escaping by unlocking the main levers (toe and heel) and pushing the bottom foot downwards and the upperfoot up while twisting hips.
    Many of the Chokes i've observed also has many levers, but i need to buy ice packs for my cauliflower....
    -Jon
     
  11. Throatyogurt

    Throatyogurt Guest

    i hate powering out of subs, my teacher gives me a dirty look, i actually let guys sub me if hes standing around. i try real hard not to use strength, but if im mounted and i see that this guy doesnt have a good base or cant finish me from there, fuck it, uuuuuuuuuuupa. i had a very bad experiance in a street fight getting mounted and my face bashed. so if im mounted and you just sit there with out attacking, sorry dude, your getting off. strengh or no strengh. its a natural reaction, sometimes you have to let yourself get caught just to work on your escapes, but strengh is not bad , its just when you use it
     
  12. flyingknee16

    flyingknee16 Brown Belt

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    I have long, skinny legs and it's really easy for me to thread my legs around my opponents and through the openings created between their arms and their bodies to do triangles and such. Ah, it's great ^_^
     
  13. ClubberLange

    ClubberLange Green Belt

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    um, you got the right thred here?
     
  14. phenomfan1529

    phenomfan1529 Brown Belt

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    Totally agree.
     
  15. Oktavius**

    Oktavius** Brown Belt

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    Something that bothers me is if i dont use my strength during training and only use technique, i will be teahing myself bad habits. I often see in mma and grappling a lot of the more 'technical fighters' and bjj black belts lose because they are too used to moving around and trying flashy techniques and abandoning a sub just because they cant get it on in 2 seconds. Opposed to the strong fighters with good basics who will use them to finish.
     
  16. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    dont make the mistake of trying flashy stuff then..

    Strength training = injury to you, your partner.. which means no more training... which means no more getting better. When you fight Go all out and use the stuff you know is going to work.
     
  17. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    i am not saying not to develp tech, i am saying not to eschew ur physical ability; because there will be a time when someone is better than u tech and u just might have to muscle ur way out of it (if u can). Not saying that is right, but saying that if u have an asset u use it.

    i think u guys are missing my point as well, in the other instance of being a grappler or striker or whatever u have to deal w/all sorts of styles and approaches and if all the big guys u roll w/are finesse guys..when u do face a strong/physical guy u might not be able to adjust to the manhandling and mauling. Especially if the guy has a solid background, an if his skills are as good or better than urs the strength will be the diff and if you have never faced a skilled opp roughing u up or laying on u or manhandling u. Well then u might panic. It's the same if u are fighting a high volume punching/brawling type and the only guys u sparred were tech or speedsters or slicksters or boxer punchers; you will be exposed, brawlers are some of the easiest guys to handle; but if u have not prepared for that approach or the attributes that come w/those types u will be beaten. Same thing w/grappling...don't depend on ur strength; but don't get so far away from it that u can't./won't use it if the time comes when u need to.

    An like i said before u are doing ur partners a disservice by not letting them see what it is like to face a skilled big guy who also will rough them up or throw them around or lay on them; i am not in the ins and outs of grappling training. But in boxing they make u spar w/all diff types so u are prepared for the experienced fighter, the tech fighter, the athletic fighter, the brawler, the dirty fighter, the speedster, etc; all those guys have other elements of the boxing game in tthem. But they focus on certain areas so that they are ready.

    I hear so many guys talk about he was big and he mauled me or he was big and he threw me around or he just laid on me an he stalled ; an i was like did you not prepare for that. Didn't u have ur big guys..lay on u or maul u or muscle u around or stall u, they said no; we focus on tech and strategy and i am like the things they do are strategies, u just did not train yourself to be prepared to deal w/them. You rolled w/a bunch of big finesse tech guys and the first time u faced a big guy who roughed them up and manhandled them and had some tech they were stymied.

    To me they did not prepare themselves and their partners did not prepare them for any and all possible opp and/or strategies..

    once again i am not saying that u should depend on strength or physical ability, but u can't get away from it especially if it will help bolster ur tech or help u in situations when tech is overmatched. An like i said before u have to be prepared to deal w/any approach and style and if all u see is tech guys; the minute someone throws a wrinkle in of being explosive or powerful or strong or using their size..well them u have problems.
     

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