Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by CarnalSalvation, Sep 14, 2005.
Just a little background: For those who don
this is important for you clowns. Almost all the articles you read are by guys who put up huge numbers but DO bench shirted. Not to take anything away from them, but it changes your training and technique in a number of signifciant ways. Taylor is putting up some respectable numbers raw and is doing a fine job showing you what pieces of advice you need to focus on when you read those articles. Not every metal Militia tip can carry over to raw benching.
Interesting note, a lot of guys I've talked to report having much healthier shoulders with the incorporation of or shifted focus onto OHPs.
OHPresses in any variation, from exerperience, are just one of the best exercises you can do.
carnal: GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!
no really, ive been figuring out the exact same shit recently. the j-curve or whatever helped tremendously, as well as incorporating a lot more OHP (a new goal is to get my BW overhead, damn pussy shoulders).
Good stuff as always. I do everything raw considering I lift in my garage, and I don't compete in meets. I really only compete in bjj tournaments. Regardless, I also want to be stronger and I totally agree with elbows tucked thing. If I tuck too much it seems to put more pressure on my elbows which is uncomfortable, limiting, and sometimes painful to my elbow joints. On the other hand, I tend to push in a straight line. I always do overhead presses alternating standing and sitting. Overhead presses are one thing I disagreed with James Smith about. Don't get me wrong, he had tons of good info but I am glad I never took his advice on not doing OHpresses. I only do one kind of press for a full body workout. What Carnal's thread is basicly saying is find the right groove for you, and I couldn't agree more.
thanks for info carnal. are you doing the ohp's as assistance work on bench day, or as a main lift instead of bench every other week or two?
Good thread. I'd actually incorporated more overhead work in the past two weeks in the form of dumbell clean and presses and the benefits have been pretty immediate.
Good thread. I love the ohp.
Fuckin throw it!
Nudge, there are two reasons, the biggest one being I don't have the ceiling clearance in my new basement. I'm 6' and have long arms, I need some space to do standing OH work. The other reason is I almost always cheat while standing, it's almost involuntary. I am big supporter of the standing OH in the routines of fighters though.
rEMY, I got a fevah, and the only cure is OHP. You guys are gonna want that OHP, I'm tellin' ya...
Espo, yeah exactly. Notice how I put "better" in qoutes, I'm sure the straight line thing works for some folks, but I'm not one of em, and evidently neither are a few other people on this board. From what I've heard it might be related to arm/bench stroke length. Short armed guys tend to like the I while longer armed dudes dig the J.
colinm-I press 2-3 days a week. One day is JUST heavy bench pressing, heavy 1-3 rep sets, and maybe a few downsets. The other days I do OHP for high sets, low reps at a medium intensity.
I do pretty much the same thing. I usually work to up to doubles instead of a single though. Then I do standing bb mp for something like 6X5-8 on my other day.
Aaron, I should have mentioned that I also do a few 5-8 rep sets at the end of my all my singles, doubles and triples.
I also like to varry my grip up a lot when I'm overhead pressing.
If you look at the workouts of the old timers (like before "powerlifting" as we know it now even existed) the most common way of training the overhead press involved a lot of volume, a lot of frequency and not so much intensity.
It's one of the very few lifts I advise spending the majority of your time working with what I'd call "medium" weights, in terms of % of 1RM. I am a big proponent of very heavy lifting otherwise.
Interesting stuff. What's your take on some people's contention that the pure press is an "old man's" lift. In other words, it does seem to be more demanding on the CNS, and one really has to take one's time in building up the intensity. I know from experience that my pressing has never seemed to improve at a comparable rate as my squat and dead.
They say Oly Lifting was dominated by older men back in the three lift press era simply because the young guns didn't have the time under the bar yet to develop a good press. When the press went out, the young guns came in since a highly developed upper body was no longer needed for a great total.
Just rambling...in my experience the strict OHP does seem to have some unique aspects to it, and just having to spend a lot of time under the bar seems to be one of them. I could deadlift once a week and that lift just seems to keep going up. Not so on the press.
Dash, I always thought the various tales of "pressing maturity" or "growing into the press" were wives tales until recently, but it seems more and more true, not only of the OHP, but also of the bench. When I would bitch about my crappy bench, I'd sometimes have people say "just wait, it'll come" and I'd think "what a stupid goddamn thing to say". But they were right, it was like a lightswitch being flicked on.
I certainly don't know the physiological reasons, but there is definately some anecdotal evidence (some of which you yourself pointed out) to support the idea.
Carnal, couple of questions.
Where do you place your feet when you bench? Wide with >90 angle (at knee), close with >90 angle, close with <90 angle (feet under butt)? feet flat on floor, on toes or heels? This is something that I had a hard time deciding on. I found that I could arch more with my feet under my ass on my toes, but felt more "solid" with my feet out in front (>90) on my heels, even though I had less of an arch. I've stuck with the latter for the past few years.
Did the J curve thing just happen or did you make a conscious effort to do so. Also, did it start after you had been doing OHP's for a while? I know the J curve emphasizes the delts a bit more, so I'm curious to know if your OHP caused this by making your delts into one of your stronger muscles of the press
Wasp, When I first set up I'm on the balls of my feet and my feet are like behind my knees, I can get a tighter, harder arch and upper back this way. However when I then move them out to more than than 90 degrees with my toes pointed out and most of my weight on my heels. Not only do I agree this gives a more "solid base" haveing your legs out wide makes it virtually impossible to raise your ass off the bench, which some powerlifters get called on a lot in competition. I've never had an issue with it, but I reckon that's cuz I use a style that helps prevent it.
Oh, and why the J curve works for me with weak delts is a mystery to me, I guess I feel like I can almost cut them out of the lift this way, pound the weight off my chest with my upper back and huge pecs, then quick rotate my elbows out and kick my tri's in hard to lock it out. It becomes almost a 2 stage lift instead of three.
BTW, that's an amazing increase. That's a very respectable bench at any level, especially for a twenty year old who's only been lifting for a few years. Congrats. Do you see 500 raw as a potential in the near future? What are your squat and DL at currently?
Can you take your tongue out of his asshole, thanks...
I've found OHP, inclines, and dumbbell have helped me a lot in the last month, I'm up 15 lbs on my pr since late August. I was trying the dynamic benching, and wider grip work, but I couldn't get the weight off my chest at 245. I hit 260 last week, and it wasn't too difficult. I'm hoping I can get my bench somewhere near my rack lockouts if I keep up this pace.
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