Rant: Punk Boxer spoke at my church's youth class

[Bamaispriceless]

Whatsup guys? Well, something very interesting happened today. I get to my church's youth building, and after socializing for a good bit, me and my bud head toward our class. Well, I notice some new guy standing in the front of the class. my youth minister introduces him, and it appears he is goes to our church (have a church of about 500, don't know him). Well, he is a former golden glove boxer (1984) in Alabama (my state), and has an impressive list of credentials. Well, typically in youth, you will spend about 1 hour going over spiritual things. Well, this guy decides to brag about his career for 30 minutes, which is interesting, but he has a huge ego. So, as he is finishing talking about his career, he looks at me specifically and says:

"And, I mean this with no disrespect, but the 'Ultimate Fighters' like Chuck Liddell would not last 30 seconds in the ring with a guy like Evander Holyfield. Throwing looping punches would not work, and as everyone knows, technique plays a major part in sports. Looping punches and such do not work, and I could show you right now a way to double your punching power all by using proper technique".

What the heck??? I'm thinking to myself, this guy has absolutely no f'ing clue what he is talking about. What is "Ultimate fighting"? That's the first clue he has no idea what he is talking about. Heck, I take boxing and Muay Thai both, does he think MMA strikers are just a bunch of brawlers with no technique? Increase my punching power two fold? Thanks bud, but my instructor trained in thailand several times, and is a great striker, so why don't you shut the heck up. Has he ever heard of K1 or Pride (the answer is obviously no). I thought of walking up to him after class and telling him he might want to look up the facts a little more, and look up how professional boxers have done in professional MMA, but instead I just left. I have noticed this insecure attitude with boxers before, and can't figure it out. They are completely different sports. Quite talking trash about MMA or "Ultimate fighting" and get a clue. Sorry for the rant guys, I just have heard so many boxers and boxing fans put down MMA that it just makes me sick.

 

[Luke Bucknell]

i'm guessing he hasn't seen Fujita vs Mayfield at inoki bom-ba-ye 2003...

 

[DoctorsAdvocate]

you can't compare apples with oranges.

 

[Bamaispriceless]

you can't compare apples with oranges.

I understand completely. I love MMA, and specifically grappling, but I also highly respect boxing. I do not question boxers dominance in a boxing match against a MMA'er. However, they should not question a MMA'ers dominance in a MMA match. Why? Becuse every MMA'er will have a strategy, and within 1 minute of a fight most MMA'ers would have shot a single leg on the boxer due to his stance. It's all about strategy and different techniques. I can't stand the comparisons.

 

[USMCGixxer6]

funny stuff,

do you ever realize he might just be talking about 30 seconds in a boxing ring? not an mma cage/ring?


also it goes both ways, MMA people are very very quick to start trying to shit on boxing.

 

[Bamaispriceless]

funny stuff,

do you ever realize he might just be talking about 30 seconds in a boxing ring? not an mma cage/ring?


also it goes both ways, MMA people are very very quick to start trying to shit on boxing.

Maybe so, but I didn't take it that way. MMA guys who talk shit on boxing are also idiots, unless it deals with a specific aspect like the ineffectiveness of a traditional boxing stance in MMA, etc...which has some merit (whether you agree or disagree).

 

[USMCGixxer6]

Maybe so, but I didn't take it that way. MMA guys who talk shit on boxing are also idiots, unless it deals with a specific aspect like the ineffectiveness of a traditional boxing stance in MMA, etc...which has some merit (whether you agree or disagree).

well of course it has some merit, just like an MMA stlyed boxing stance isnt good for traditional boxing.

the whole comparison is fucking retarded.

Both sides just need to stick the golden rule, if you dont have anything nice to say, then dont say it at all, lol

 

[Bamaispriceless]

well of course it has some merit, just like an MMA stlyed boxing stance isnt good for traditional boxing.

the whole comparison is fucking retarded.

Both sides just need to stick the golden rule, if you dont have anything nice to say, then dont say it at all, lol

That's what I meant. Him saying something specific about how something MMA'ers do wouldn't work in Boxing is fine, but he has to be a little bitch and put down MMA as a whole. I'd never do that about boxing. Like the guy said above, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

On a sidenote, does anyone have any sort of list or history detailing how Boxers have done in MMA? Just curious in case anyone else says anything, I will be able to present the facts.

EDIT: My grammar is horrible tonight.

 

[USMCGixxer6]

That's what I meant. Him saying something specific about how something MMA'ers do wouldn't work in Boxing is fine, but he has to be a little bitch and put down MMA as a whole. I'd never do that about boxing. Like the guy said above, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

On a sidenote, does anyone have any sort of list or history detailing how Boxers have done in MMA? Just curious in case anyone else says anything, I will be able to present the facts.

EDIT: My grammar is horrible tonight.

dont even waste your time, they will just counterback with that guy wasnt a top boxer, lol

Marcus Davis is doing ok, Same with butterbean, lmao. Although Genki subbed him. Art Jimmerson lasted longer then Ken SHamrock did in UFC 1 vs Royce

 

[Sinister]

You sound like the insecure, arrogant punk in this situation, not a guy who actually has some credibility to back what he says, even if he didn't word it to your liking. It's not his responsibility to Govern how you took what he said. People say things, and you CHOOSE how to react, and if you keep your cool you can actually ask a question minus the pretense like "Hey man, do you mean in a Boxing ring that looping punches don't work?" Discussion might have clarified things. But he did say in the "ring", so you chould have chosen to assume he wasn't talking about Pride or K-1. And I hate to tell you, but he's right. Most MMA Fighters WOULD get knocked out in a Boxing ring against an Elite level Boxer, but that's just stating the obvious. If HE got pissed off at you saying "yeah but Holyfield would get tapped out in an MMA match against Matt Hughes"...you'd think he was silly for being upset about that.

This guy said what you felt was an insult to a guy you obviously (and rightfully) admire, and you chose to be offended, then to come up here and talk shit.

No one is going to have any detailed History on how "Boxers" have done in MMA because it's ignorant to consider anyone who punches a Boxer. Butterbean is absolutely NOT a Boxer. If by "Boxer" you mean a Professional, then they've done relatively well considering who has made the transition. No guy in his Prime has gone from Boxing to MMA really, who had a notable career in Boxing. Jeremy Williams was a Professional, and he's achieved the same status in MMA that he had in Boxing, dependable journeyman who once in a while has an impressive win, but for the most-part is an opponent anyone with skill should beat. If you're looking for a reason to smash Boxing, Nishijima would probably be it because he was a former WBC Champ (though that means little), and has transitioned extremely poorly. However, Marcus Davis was a Boxer...nothing special, and is on his way up it seems after adapting a ground game and looked very impressive against Shonie Carter. Bonnar competed in the Golden Gloves, and though his career has been a bit shitty recently, if you ask me he should have got the nod against Forrest and has suffered because he's had something to prove ever since. Din Thomas is actually himself a converted Boxer, and he currently trains under Olympic Gold Medalist and former Contender Howard Davis, who is one of the only men on the planet who can claim a win against Aaron Pryor in his career (in the Amateurs, and it was a bullshit decision, but a win nonetheless).

Aside from that there's not much to go on. Rey Mercer and another OLD, WELL beyond his prime Veteran Boxer fought in MMA matches and lost, but that's like bragging about Hughes beating Gracie, it was a foregone conclusion.

 

[godofdixie]

did his speech at least bring u closer to the lord?

 

[White Scott]

He's right though. Whats so hard to admit about most "ultimate fighters" not being able to compete in boxing? Also, he probably called it "utlimate fighting" because ur church people dont know what MMA is.

Are you telling us all this because you wish you had said something to him?

 

[Sinister]

He might have also called it "Ultimate Fighting" because he's seen Chuck Liddel in the UFC. Most of the casual American fans call it "Ultimate Fighting", but that's as much the UFC's fault as anyone's.

 

[aaron_mag]

I was in an airport the other day and I looked up to see Joe Rogan on TV with some other guy. It was one of those ESPN things where they have the gimmick of having a split screen and having two guys debate for one minute. Of course it always turns into a screaming match with the one who yells the loudest 'winning' (every station is doing it now, it is the latest rage).

At any rate the topic was MMA vs. Boxing. And yes Joe 'won' the screaming match. What surprised me was the level of belligerance, the swagger in him. I remember him looking at the camera and saying, "This is the last generation of famous boxers like De La Hoya. There will be no more after this..."

Body language was jaw squared, slight shake of the head, eyes staring straight ahead. The posture of a guy who is spoiling for a fight and knows he is pushing the other guys buttons.

Considering that this has been the industry stance is it any wonder that boxing gets defensive? Currently no one is more holier than thou than MMA. On the front page of Sherdog you even have Marcela Garcia seeming defensive and having something to prove about the importance of BJJ in MMA! Who would have thought we'd see the day when a BJJ artist feels he has to prove BJJ's revelance in MMA?

Why are we seeing this trend? I think it is because the identity of the core arts is getting stripped away. Many people don't want to spend the time to get a rooted base in one art. The rule set of each art was developed to promote a certain skillset (whether it be throws, ground work, kicks, hands, etc). But now everyone wants to how having rules hinder them rather than how they help them develop skills.

 

[Sinister]

Ergh. Aaron that was Lou DiBella. Lou is about one of the shadiest Promoters in Boxing History. He's probably half the reason the public at-large hated Bernard Hopkins so furiously for as long as they did, and the reason his career is minisculed to some degree. Now Bernard was no innocent, but Lou's smear-campaign was downright disgraceful and uncalled-for. Ever since then he's kind of been a proverbially black-balled Promoter. No one in Boxing gives a fuck about the dude. He'll do damn near anything for Money. So, that would be the equivalent of hiring say, Pat Smith to represent MMA as an ambassador, once upon a time he was SOMETHING (not much) and now he's barely anything at all.

I said this before in another thread, but there wouldn't be any animosity from the Boxing Community at all had it not been for Dana White's personal vendetta. When Zuffa acquired the UFC, Dana made it his personal mantra that "we're better than Boxing." He still says it to this day. It was their whole ad-campaign. "Boxing is your Father's Sport"...remember that? Well, the question is what happens to the children of MMA enthusiasts when they ask "Daddy why is that man laying on that other man like you lay on Mommy?" And the Daddy says "Son, he's gonna ground and pound him." (that's a joke people, calm down).

But it was a stupid ad-campaign and the insecure demographic Dana placated to the most ate it up. Now you have people spouting all kinds of media-hype and rhetoric that just isn't true, about the Death of a Sport and the delusional ignorance of it's participants. Neither of these two ideas could be further from the truth. But afterall it's FUN to have something to get all riled up about. When in reality you have former and current Pro Boxers and trainers making MMA Fighters better Fighters. You have Boxers who attend MMA shows and vice versa, you have them in the same gyms, buying equipment from the same people, you have them sharing the same sense of what it is to be part of the proverbial "Warrior" class. Sure one is older as a Sport, with more Global viability, but IMO that's a stupid reason to hate. I've watched Boxing since I was old enough to comprehend, and as you know I've followed the UFC's since Day ONE. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

EDIT: For anyone (including Rogan) who thinks Boxing is Dead and without stars, stories, and Life or Death struggles...I invite you to view this contest then have the nerve to repeat that malarky (follow the links from Part I). Oh and before anyone mentions the crowd, that crowd is thin because of Jermain Taylor, not "Boxing."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jMHfnbkx6A

 

[remmah]

i hear this crap alot aswell and its so retarded.

the fact is go ahead and put chuck liddell in a ring with boxing rules and bernard hopkins or winky wright would dispose of him in a few rounds and vice versa if u put them in the octagon. boxing has something that mma doesnt have history....certified legends. ray robinson, julio cesar chavez, pernell whitaker.. the list goes on and on. BUT! give mma some time and it will have its own set of legends. right now tho there are none its only been 10 years or so. i personally prefer boxing, a great boxing match is much more entertaining then an mma fight, but the problem is that fights like ward-gatti 1 are far and few between, you can always count on some nice knockouts in an mma fight. but shit there all on ppv i dont feel like spending 40+ every time i want to see a good ufc fight. they need hbo or showtime to back them every now and then in my humble oppinion.

 

[Sinister]

the fact is go ahead and put chuck liddell in a ring with boxing rules and bernard hopkins or winky wright would dispose of him in a few rounds and vice versa if u put them in the octagon. boxing has something that mma doesnt have history....certified legends. ray robinson, julio cesar chavez, pernell whitaker.. the list goes on and on. BUT! give mma some time and it will have its own set of legends. right now tho there are none its only been 10 years or so. i personally prefer boxing, a great boxing match is much more entertaining then an mma fight, but the problem is that fights like ward-gatti 1 are far and few between, you can always count on some nice knockouts in an mma fight. but shit there all on ppv i dont feel like spending 40+ every time i want to see a good ufc fight. they need hbo or showtime to back them every now and then in my humble oppinion.

Here's the way I see it. MMA does have some problems. Monopolization, and spoiled fans who don't largely support MMA as a whole (like how people hate on IFL/Bodog/whatever else). Also I think Dana White is eventually going to need to be replaced as the Captain of the UFC ship, his vision is just a little too limited.

MMA has WAYS to go for the same global appeal as Boxing has had. When South Africa was in racial turmoil it actually affected the Sport, as many South African Champions were denied fights, stripped of Titles, and Contenders were denied Title Fights. The WBC and WBA banned South Africa from participation as a whole.

Cuba has out-lawed Pro Boxing. So Cubans have to defect if they want to have a career, and many have, going back to defect Family Members from the Communist Country. Pacquiao is almost single-handedly bringing his Country onto the World Boxing stage in a much more viable light, which will spur a lot of fighters to pursue better financial places and roles in their society. Fighters from Africa like Kassim Ouma (Uganda) have escaped Civil War ridden Countries, won World Titles, and effectively rescued their Families from that crap (Ouma had Family members murdered and tortured in front of him). Alexis Arguello was banished from Nicaragua, and now serves in the Country's government. This has persisted all through Boxing History.

Even in America with Ali's turmoil in politics during Vietnam, and how the Nazis used the bout between Joe Louis and Max Schmelling as fodder for their propaganda of racial superiority because Louis lost to Max the first time. Color lines were defined in Dempsey's time, and it was nothing easy to alleviate them. Hell at one point during Jake LaMotta's time a lot of Boxing was controlled by the Mafia.

Then you also have second and third-generation Fighters winning Titles, and overshadowing their forefather's accomplishments. When MMA grows to achieve things like this then it'll have a credibility no one can ever take away. But if it's not done right it may just end up like the NFL/CFL. Something primarily North Americans, and a couple other Countries take seriously, but is largley ignored on the World stage. Personally, I hope it DOES grow to have it's own identity. But I won't allow youngsters to believe it already does, in America it's growing, and BIG BIG things are possible, but it's still a question mark.

 

[woogie12]

KK, I'm just curious, do you train in things other than boxing? I always wondered about this.

 

[Sinister]

I used to. It's been a while. I love all Combat Sports, but let's put it this way...if I were to decide to do MMA tomorrow I'd be a combination of Boxing, Muay Thai, and Submission Wrestling (or catch-wrestling). The latter being what I'd be the most rusty at.

But I'm such a fight nerd I've seen about every Gung Fu flick known to man, aspire to perform Dragonball tactics, and even watch the WCL enthusiastically.

 

[woogie12]

Haha okok. I assumed you were huge on boxing because of all your pro boxing advice and all. Have you competed in boxing/mma?