Ranking the light saber duelists
- Thread starter Fedorgasm
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Yoda never should have had a light saber as it undercut most of what he taught Luke about using the Force. That tiny light saber ain't got much reach, unless you can use CG to defeat physics and create a character that's never in any danger of getting hurt and so the scene has no tension.
In fact, fuck the choreography, all of it. The original trilogy, before all the soulless dance moves, have better fights because the tension has been built up to them instead of the effects being the film.
Original trilogy, then, with Vader being the best swordsman.
In fact, fuck the choreography, all of it. The original trilogy, before all the soulless dance moves, have better fights because the tension has been built up to them instead of the effects being the film.
Original trilogy, then, with Vader being the best swordsman.
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From the movies, I have Anakin presuit at #1 based on how badly he demolished Dooku who was supposed to be even with Windu and at least similar to Yoda. Probably Yoda at #2 along with Windu, and then Sidious just a hair below them with Dooku probably similar. Luke in ROTJ is underrated IMO, he comfortably beat Vader who has been buffed in a lot of recent material.
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The Tard is strong in this one.
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- Item #1: Time Management
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Ironically, nope. Real nerds wouldn't be putting out the lists we're seeing in this thread.
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If Anakin's win over Palpatine doesn't count, then hardly any of Palpatine's wins count either as he uses force lightning and telekinesis in all of his fights. Palpatine used lightning vs Darth Anakin, but Ani got him out of there through old man strength alone. He did kill Palpatine in that moment: just because the emperor cloned himself back to life to save Kathleen Kenedy's ass doesn't mean he wasn't dead.
His win vs Obi definitely counts: Jedi grow stronger in the force with time, not weaker. Not Anakin's fault that 70'ies choreography wasn't up to much. Also, I'm pretty sure Obi Wan was hiding in the desert in order to complete several steroid and hgh cycles without USADA knowing what he was up to. He was stronger in that fight, not weaker.
Similarly, his win vs. Luke defintely counts. Luke was the chosen one and Anakin beat him while pulling his punches. Anakin did this while off the TRT and wearing 100 pounds of breathing aparatus due to USADA not allowing him to use his inhaler. That's a good win and the only win anyone has over Luke.
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To rank them properly,
you have to know the 7 forms.
Jedi saber duel math doesn't always work.
(Mace Windu was best btw, and Darth Maul should be WAY higher @Fedorgasm )
Form I: Shii-Cho
When learning lightsaber techniques, a Jedi or Sith apprentice is trained to recognize all seven forms of combat. Shii-Cho, also known as Form I, is the oldest and most elementary form of lightsaber combat developed by the Jedi Order. Shii-Cho is still taught to youngling Jedis because it is the most basic. This style is known to be used when all other forms of combat have failed. Because this form has such early origins, Shii-Cho is not optimized for a lightsaber to lightsaber combat and is used predominantly for defense.
Form II: Makashi
Once the Dark Jedi and Sith Lords emerged, Form I became outdated and the Jedi needed a combative form that was both offensive and defense, something more equipped for a lightsaber to lightsaber contact. At this point, many switched to the Makashi form, also known as Form II or the Contention Form. This form is both graceful and calculated, relying on balance and complicated footwork to outsmart their opponent. In the Makashi form, opponents use only one hand and with this form, the user is usually able to disarm their opponent without killing them.
Form III: Soresu
As intergalactic combat changed and blasters became more relevant, the Makashi form of fighting soon became obsolete. Unlike Shii-Cho, which is still used by Jedi, Form III, also known as Soresu or the Way of the Mynock, replaced Makashi (Form II). This form is known to be the most resilient and the ultimate expression of the non-aggressive Jedi philosophy. Obi-Wan Kenobi, a master of Soresu, was said to be able to block any strike and able to move less than 20 hits per second. Another key reason why this method became so prominent was for its defensive tactics. A Jedi needs to be able to protect themselves from all sides, and Soresu is the perfect tactic to not only combat in a duel but to deflect any potential shots coming at the fighter. Although many Jedi fighters use Soresu, Luke Skywalker proved himself excellent at this technique while fending off Scout Troopers on Endor.
Form IV: Ataru
As lightsaber wielders started becoming more skilled and powerful in the force, Form IV, also known as Ataru or the Aggression Form, grew in prominence. Ataru fighting techniques date back through the Old Republic and even were employed during the Mandalorian Wars. Due to its aggressive nature, Ataru became the favored combat style for many Sith and is marked as the second most kinetically active combat form, aside from Form VII. Much of the Ataru style is affected by how skilled the fighter is with the force seeing as it heavily relies on the use of Force-assisted acrobatics. Like Makashi (Form II), Ataru is most useful in one-on-one lightsaber combat. Relying on a compilation of speed, agility, and strength, practitioners of this form are combatting on the offensive. Before the fall of the Old Republic, both Yoda and Qui-Gon Jinn were some of the most skilled Jedi in using Form IV. In Revenge of the Sith, Yoda displays his excellence in using the Ataru combatting style while fighting Darth Sidious. Ataru is not a fighting method that can or should be used by novices of the Force. It is a lightsaber tactic that requires detailed force knowledge and can only be employed by those who can become one with the force, allowing the Force to flow through them freely.
Form V: Shien & Djem So
When observing Form V of lightsaber combat, a good opponent will be able to recognize the two principal disciplines of Shien and Djem So. Form V evolved from Form III as a method to not only defend oneself but also give the fighter an opportunity to be on the offensive. Shien, the classical variant of Form V, is mainly used in combat that takes place at a distance, like deflecting shots from a blaster. On the other hand, Djem So was specially designed for a lightsaber to lightsaber combat. The underlying factor in both Shien and Djem So is to use your opponent’s attacks against them in a counter-strike. Like many lightsaber forms, this one is used by both Sith and Jedi alike although some Jedi felt that the aggression used in this form was not faithful to the Jedi way. Many large lightsaber-wielding individuals prefer to use Form V because it relies less on acrobatics than some of the other offensive forms.
Form VI: Niman
Form VI, also referred to as Niman or the Way of the Rancor, was developed in order to combine many of the previous forms into one, centralized fighting technique. In merging the previous forms, Form VI became the first form that did not have a signature fighting technique, but also the first form that did not have a particular weakness. Because of the lack of specialization to this method, when training in the Niman form, lightsaber-wielders usually accompany this form of combat with force-based combat.
Form VII: Juyo (or Vaapad)
Finally, the seventh form of lightsaber combat emerged and was referred to as either Juyo or Vaapad or Form VII. Form VII is the last known form of lightsaber combat and is known to be the most aggressive. Jedi Master Mace windu is the main Jedi known to use this form of combat because Form VII is the most aggressive and only the most Force-sensitive individuals can execute this form successfully. When Master Windu fought Darth Sidious, he used Form VII and took the upper hand in the fight. Once Master Windu disarmed Sidious, he was given the opportunity to take out this powerful Sith but knew it was not the Jedi way to murder an unarmed fighter. Master Windu’s immense force knowledge and lightsaber skills allowed him to disarm the most dangerous man in the galaxy. It was not Windu’s fighting skills, but devotion to honor the Jedi Way that led him to his death.
you have to know the 7 forms.
Jedi saber duel math doesn't always work.
(Mace Windu was best btw, and Darth Maul should be WAY higher @Fedorgasm )
Form I: Shii-Cho
When learning lightsaber techniques, a Jedi or Sith apprentice is trained to recognize all seven forms of combat. Shii-Cho, also known as Form I, is the oldest and most elementary form of lightsaber combat developed by the Jedi Order. Shii-Cho is still taught to youngling Jedis because it is the most basic. This style is known to be used when all other forms of combat have failed. Because this form has such early origins, Shii-Cho is not optimized for a lightsaber to lightsaber combat and is used predominantly for defense.
Form II: Makashi
Once the Dark Jedi and Sith Lords emerged, Form I became outdated and the Jedi needed a combative form that was both offensive and defense, something more equipped for a lightsaber to lightsaber contact. At this point, many switched to the Makashi form, also known as Form II or the Contention Form. This form is both graceful and calculated, relying on balance and complicated footwork to outsmart their opponent. In the Makashi form, opponents use only one hand and with this form, the user is usually able to disarm their opponent without killing them.
Form III: Soresu
As intergalactic combat changed and blasters became more relevant, the Makashi form of fighting soon became obsolete. Unlike Shii-Cho, which is still used by Jedi, Form III, also known as Soresu or the Way of the Mynock, replaced Makashi (Form II). This form is known to be the most resilient and the ultimate expression of the non-aggressive Jedi philosophy. Obi-Wan Kenobi, a master of Soresu, was said to be able to block any strike and able to move less than 20 hits per second. Another key reason why this method became so prominent was for its defensive tactics. A Jedi needs to be able to protect themselves from all sides, and Soresu is the perfect tactic to not only combat in a duel but to deflect any potential shots coming at the fighter. Although many Jedi fighters use Soresu, Luke Skywalker proved himself excellent at this technique while fending off Scout Troopers on Endor.
Form IV: Ataru
As lightsaber wielders started becoming more skilled and powerful in the force, Form IV, also known as Ataru or the Aggression Form, grew in prominence. Ataru fighting techniques date back through the Old Republic and even were employed during the Mandalorian Wars. Due to its aggressive nature, Ataru became the favored combat style for many Sith and is marked as the second most kinetically active combat form, aside from Form VII. Much of the Ataru style is affected by how skilled the fighter is with the force seeing as it heavily relies on the use of Force-assisted acrobatics. Like Makashi (Form II), Ataru is most useful in one-on-one lightsaber combat. Relying on a compilation of speed, agility, and strength, practitioners of this form are combatting on the offensive. Before the fall of the Old Republic, both Yoda and Qui-Gon Jinn were some of the most skilled Jedi in using Form IV. In Revenge of the Sith, Yoda displays his excellence in using the Ataru combatting style while fighting Darth Sidious. Ataru is not a fighting method that can or should be used by novices of the Force. It is a lightsaber tactic that requires detailed force knowledge and can only be employed by those who can become one with the force, allowing the Force to flow through them freely.
Form V: Shien & Djem So
When observing Form V of lightsaber combat, a good opponent will be able to recognize the two principal disciplines of Shien and Djem So. Form V evolved from Form III as a method to not only defend oneself but also give the fighter an opportunity to be on the offensive. Shien, the classical variant of Form V, is mainly used in combat that takes place at a distance, like deflecting shots from a blaster. On the other hand, Djem So was specially designed for a lightsaber to lightsaber combat. The underlying factor in both Shien and Djem So is to use your opponent’s attacks against them in a counter-strike. Like many lightsaber forms, this one is used by both Sith and Jedi alike although some Jedi felt that the aggression used in this form was not faithful to the Jedi way. Many large lightsaber-wielding individuals prefer to use Form V because it relies less on acrobatics than some of the other offensive forms.
Form VI: Niman
Form VI, also referred to as Niman or the Way of the Rancor, was developed in order to combine many of the previous forms into one, centralized fighting technique. In merging the previous forms, Form VI became the first form that did not have a signature fighting technique, but also the first form that did not have a particular weakness. Because of the lack of specialization to this method, when training in the Niman form, lightsaber-wielders usually accompany this form of combat with force-based combat.
Form VII: Juyo (or Vaapad)
Finally, the seventh form of lightsaber combat emerged and was referred to as either Juyo or Vaapad or Form VII. Form VII is the last known form of lightsaber combat and is known to be the most aggressive. Jedi Master Mace windu is the main Jedi known to use this form of combat because Form VII is the most aggressive and only the most Force-sensitive individuals can execute this form successfully. When Master Windu fought Darth Sidious, he used Form VII and took the upper hand in the fight. Once Master Windu disarmed Sidious, he was given the opportunity to take out this powerful Sith but knew it was not the Jedi way to murder an unarmed fighter. Master Windu’s immense force knowledge and lightsaber skills allowed him to disarm the most dangerous man in the galaxy. It was not Windu’s fighting skills, but devotion to honor the Jedi Way that led him to his death.
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This is gold! how the fuck was I the first one to like it smh
This is a good post, but Obi-wan beat a very young Anakin and the maul fight ….. I don't know. It was one of Maul's first fights against prime competition so not sure I'd agree it was prime Maul.
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Terrible fight IQ. Doesn't train low ground.
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Flashy is not better. Any fight, in order to be truly good, has to move the story forward, be motivated by something, and have drama that supports the action.
The two fighters have to have something of emotional substance going on between them.
The two fighters have to have something of emotional substance going on between them.
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Just remember. Future non suit Vader would have smashed everyone. He had power levels beyond even the Councils comprehension
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Palpatine did use the force a lot in his battles, which is fine. I put Palpatine behind Mace and Yoda strictly in saber dueling skills. He had little for Mace with the saber and was just a little behind Yoda in my book. Palpatine vs Anakin/Vader has nothing at all to do with dueling and is completely irrelevant.
Vader-Luke 1 was like Hughes-GSP 1. Luke was a talented up and comer bust just not there yet. Vaders win over Luke might have meant something if Luke had a single dueling victory over any other elite Jedi other than old Vader, but he just does not have them on his resume.
But in Vader-Luke 2--- What happened? Luke's camp went back and looked at the tape and saw Anakin's glaring weakness which he had never remedied his entire career-limb defense.
Sorry, just no way to be the GOAT duelist when you have 3 definitive limb severing losses on your record. Mace, Yoda, and Obi-Wan fought stiffer dueling competition over their careers and never lost a limb. Neither Mace or Yoda have a single L on their record that can be laid at the feet of their dueling skills.
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Nope. Pre suit Anakin wins. Your paragraphs of bullshit hypothesis does not win over fact. The midi-chlorians were strong with this one
