Randy Couture and his black belt from Neil Melanson

[xcydal]

I'm in norcal, so I wouldn't know, but for 150 bucks a month it had better be pretty damn good, so if that's the case they'd better step their game up.

and as far as the sig, I'm in the same boat. I'm always working off my back, and trying to work from uncomfortable positions that as a former jc wrestler and hs coach, I would generally not be in. so definitely, ageed 100%.

Here's one of the vids I was talking about:
Live Go #1 | Wrestling Practice @ Xtreme Couture (GOhioCasts) on Flowrestling

 

[knoxpk]

Here's one of the vids I was talking about:
Live Go #1 | Wrestling Practice @ Xtreme Couture (GOhioCasts) on Flowrestling

who are you talking about Trigg vs Shalrous or the other guys in the back?

Its obvious they are new to wrestling. "white stripes" so to speak. They dont even move like wrestlers yet. Also big guys wrestling looks very different than little guy wrestling unless you make it to the ncaa's or something.

HS match, heavyweight division
YouTube - Denzel Kenley 2008 Heavy Weight Wrestling

 

[Hogey]

Yeah, the black belt is in Neil's style that he teaches at Randy's school. Pretty slick marketing strategy to have Randy get his belt in the ring right after such a high profile fight.

They didn't really advertise it when he got it. I had no idea who Neil was until everyone started bitching about Randy getting a black belt, it is not like Neil needs to market it if he is already teaching it at one of the most well known gyms.



I don't understand why some of you are bitching about this so much, do you honestly think Randy doesn't deserve a black belt?

 

[lechien]

I don't understand why some of you are bitching about this so much, do you honestly think Randy doesn't deserve a black belt?

they are just making fun of a submission grappler with has Catch wrestling roots using the BB.

 

[Hogey]

If you don't train in a GI and understand the intricacies involving the GI you don't deserve a BJJ Black Belt; it's as simple as that.

If they want to create their own system and rank it accordingly, more power to them.

But giving out belts for a system that doesn't use a GI is pretty silly.

While I can understand why people think it is silly.

It is Neil's own style, he can give out whatever he wants, the belt is just a sign of status.

There is no rule etched in stone saying that in order to have a black belt in a grappling martial art one must wear a gi.

 

[fourfif**]

Here's one of the vids I was talking about:
Live Go #1 | Wrestling Practice @ Xtreme Couture (GOhioCasts) on Flowrestling

shit son, you have to be kidding me....!

everyone in that video looked pretty damn good, with one notable exception.

plus two of them are professional fighters.

 

[fourfif**]

While I can understand why people think it is silly.

It is Neil's own style, he can give out whatever he wants, the belt is just a sign of status.

There is no rule etched in stone saying that in order to have a black belt in a grappling martial art one must wear a gi.

 

[Bwaiirr]

lol @ "white belts" questioning Randy's grappling credentials.

Lol @ you mate for thinking "white belts" on Sherdog are white belts in real life.

 

[ASMBJJ]

lol @ "white belts" questioning Randy's grappling credentials.

I may be a white belt on sherdog, but I am a bjj purple belt in real life, and I am not trying to pat myself on the back or anything, but I think I have enough grappling knowledge to compare styles and comment on how they differ.

 

[joe90210]

so what the hell is Neil's style exactly? can anyone just make up their own system nowadays? how is he different from other catch wrestlers\sub grapplers?

 

[adoniscomplex]

so what the hell is Neil's style exactly? can anyone just make up their own system nowadays? how is he different from other catch wrestlers\sub grapplers?

yes anyone can make up their own style (eddie bravo did )
google local martial art places n your area and youll get a bunch of seemingly random words put together so do son doo

i live in a small area and i can think of two places that have their own made up style
one is some judo karate hybird and one is some hybrid of various "ancient " styles

but untill you put out mma /k-1 / adcc champs the style doesnt really matter

 

[ijustwannasurf]

No thanks, id rather catch guys wear a badass mask!
]

This system needs to happen. KJ, make moves!

 

[Andrew Green]

Belts have been associated with martial arts since long before BJJ came into the spotlight, and plenty of schools / styles have adopted them despite not having them as part of the uniform or being traditionally part of the style.

Karate guys where bitching about Kung Fu school awarding belts for many years now, its the same argument all over again.

What it really comes down to is a business decision. Students (clients) often go into a martial arts school expecting belts, if there are none the expectation is not met and they can often feel disappointed, regardless of anything else. They walked in thinking they could sign up and earn a black belt, now they find out they can't.

As a result schools applying a belt system to their style when their is no historical tradition of doing so is quite common.

As for why he choose BJJ colours, my guess would be because those are what people are now familiar with due to the UFC and Joe Rogan. Again, expectations of clients and being able to fulfill them.

A belt also makes a good "trophy" If you hang a black belt on your wall everyone will instantly recognize what it is, and have an idea what it means. If you hang a "Level 5" certificate on your wall, not as recognizable.

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

Now that its confirmed it was a BJJ black belt, I just had a thought and I think this thread is the best place to leave it. Let me start off by stating that I recognise Randy as a world class grappler.

Ricardo Liborio held off for ages with awarding Jeff Monson his black belt. Even though Monson did not train in a gi, Liborio still felt he could achieve a black belt. However with that being said, just being a world class grappler isnt enough to earn a BB. A BB requires the mastering of BJJ, and that includes every position. Monson had to wait quite a while to get his even though he was tearing shit up in MMA.

Taking Liborios view into account, what do you guys now think of Randy? Do you think because Liborio vouches for no-gi belts that its now valid? Do you think that Randy even deserves a black belt in BJJ? Do you think his bottom game is up to scratch?

Monson has trained with the GI. And nonetheless, put Monson in a GI, and Randy in one, and see who wins that match.

Have you seen Monson's bottom half guard? Its off the hook for a guy of that size.

 

[georgejjr]

Not even Japanese judoka.

The BB basically meant you were starting in Judo, in the original system it was white and black, in the modern system its white, brown and black.

It was a Japanese living in europe the one who created colored belts because he realized westerners were liked the incentives.

In Japan a BB means absolutely squat, you are not even fit to teach as black, if we were to compare ranks, in Japan a judo BB is basically a mid level blue belt or a purple. It means you know the basics and the official techniques, and that's it.

That's basically correct. In the Japanese system, colored belts (which are usually only given to children anyway) mean kindergarten, the shodan means grade one, and you're not considered an expert until the kohaku belts (sixth and above, the red-white panel belts).

BJJ changed that for its use, making the black belt an expert belt in its system. If they'd stuck with the Japanese judo system then a BJJ black belt would be someone who knows the basics of BJJ.

As for Randy's belt, I think it was mainly about marketing. As a wrestler/judoka, I have to admit I think having a no-gi belt rank is kind of weird - it would look strange on my singlet. But to each their own.

so what the hell is Neil's style exactly? can anyone just make up their own system nowadays? how is he different from other catch wrestlers\sub grapplers?

Yes, and its always been that way. Kano did it, the Gracies did it. Ueshiba did it when he started aikido. Same for the guy who started Greco-Roman as a definite style in the 1850's. Or American folkstyle wrestling. If it catches on you've got something - that's the only test.

 

[fourfif**]

Yes, and its always been that way. Kano did it, the Gracies did it. Ueshiba did it when he started aikido. Same for the guy who started Greco-Roman as a definite style in the 1850's. Or American folkstyle wrestling. If it catches on you've got something - that's the only test.

This is sig worthy. I tried but it won't fit. Anyway, qft.

 

[joe90210]

That's basically correct. In the Japanese system, colored belts (which are usually only given to children anyway) mean kindergarten, the shodan means grade one, and you're not considered an expert until the kohaku belts (sixth and above, the red-white panel belts).

BJJ changed that for its use, making the black belt an expert belt in its system. If they'd stuck with the Japanese judo system then a BJJ black belt would be someone who knows the basics of BJJ.

As for Randy's belt, I think it was mainly about marketing. As a wrestler/judoka, I have to admit I think having a no-gi belt rank is kind of weird - it would look strange on my singlet. But to each their own.



Yes, and its always been that way. Kano did it, the Gracies did it. Ueshiba did it when he started aikido. Same for the guy who started Greco-Roman as a definite style in the 1850's. Or American folkstyle wrestling. If it catches on you've got something - that's the only test.

yes I understand anyone can technically make up their own system, I'm more curious about his justification for it, what do I get from his system that is different from another catch wrestler?

 

[SLaKKJaW]

Am I the only one that thought the timing of the belt was an inside joke between Couture and Melanson?

I mean, I feel it's justified. And if you kick as much ass on the mat as Melanson or Couture do, then I can understand awarding a belt in your own system. I mean, it's really up to the rest of the world how seriously they take that belt, not Melanson or Couture. Kind of like how McDojo TKD and Karate belts mean something to some people and nothing to others.

I'd have a hard time arguing with Neil or Randy about their legitimacy, personally.