r/The_Donald banned

[bobgeese]

I
it’s also why I included building houses because one man can build a house all by his lonesome, in fact they have being doing it for centuries.

No shit, my brother is one of them.


I assure you, you’re not special.



PS, you’re an idiot, the Goose unironically loves corporations. They make life far more efficient/affordable.

 

[panamaican]

I think we have a different definition of conversation. Someone getting on their voice-box and speaking their opinions unchallenged, is hardly a conversation. It's a monologue. It does not contribute to the "conversation", and only contributes to this sort of "fantasy-writing" that you're talking about.

The moment you're forced to address someone's legitimate points, legitimate concerns, and reflect upon your own ideas based on someone else's responses to those ideas, that's when we actually start building some degree of a legitimate world-view that is founded on existing reality rather than our own projections or fantasies.

This is not happening, to a greater and greater degree, despite the internet once being seen as the service, the forum, which would provide a platform for these sorts of conversations occurring, and encourage people to partake in them, even the "regular people" who rarely had such opportunities in the past, outside of their comfort zones.

We're using the same definition of conversation. My point was that right wing media is arming their listeners with fabrications. And those listeners then bring those fabrications to the conversation. They believe that they are responding to the legitimate points and concerns of someone else but they don't realize the extent to which their responses diverge from reality.

When you look at the conversations on a Twitter or a Twitch, you're looking at the end stage of the process, not the beginning. Prior to those "conversations", people had dozens if not hundreds of conversations within echo chambers. And that is where they crystallize the positions they bring to the public conversation.

Let's take the WR for a microcosm of this. Many of the stories on the front page are stories that the posters heard elsewhere, discussed elsewhere, formed an opinion on elsewhere and then come here to argue the validity of the point that they concluded elsewhere. If they formed that opinion in a place that reinforced fantastical ideas then they're not going to change it just because they're discussing it on this social media platform. They're going to double down because their first conversation was with people who told them they were right.

We're the end stage of the conversation. It's the initial point that requires significant examination and that's where you find people consuming Alex Jones rants and treating them like valid news/news opinion, instead of the generic entertainment that it is.

I see this as a somewhat warped view, which, if pursued to its logical "end game", would lead us to a model akin to that of China's.

If we were to operate based on the idea that the majority dictates how the minority should behave, or think, do you not see how far we would stray from any idea of "free speech" or even equal opportunity? Is this not precisely the type of thinking that led to the "majority" dictating the lives of minorities in the past? The idea that the minority should just "get on board" or accept that they are the "less popular" and thus less relevant?

We do not prove anyone wrong by silencing them. They will not learn a thing from it, except for knowing that someone else other than them, possesses the power to dictate what is acceptable or not. And that is why the struggle continues, in the form of "cultural wars", to become the one who dictates the terms, which everyone else must obey.

The only way to "make it stop" or atleast put a halt to its worst excesses, so that people will no longer be so occupied with possessing authority for themselves and themselves alone, is by giving everybody a fair shake, a fair opportunity to speak their mind, regardless of whether they represent the majority view or not.

It's not so much a matter of whether they are proven untrue or not, but how. That is what ought to be focused on. If the methods we are using are forceful, controlling, even totalitarian, then it is no surprise that people will respond very negatively to that. Not by changing their beliefs but by doubling down on them.

You completely misunderstood what I said. I said that people need to accept when they hold the minority position. They don't have to conform to the majority but they should not pretend that they're part of the majority when they're not.

For example - I think people should not place as much emphasis on the equity of their primary residence because it's not real value (for a variety of reasons that are irrelevant to this thread). However, I know that my position is a minority position. Most people don't agree me. I can accept that. I don't and should not pretend that my position is the majority position. Even if I think I'm right, society does not agree with me. So I shouldn't be surprised when society moves in a different direction than I would. That is not a problem with society. That is the inevitability of holding the minority position on societal level issues.

The "how" is being done properly.

Another example: Creationism is now the minority position so we don't teach it in public schools. We don't give it a chapter in the science books. It has been silenced. People who want to teach Creationism can still do it, they can home school, they can send their kids to schools that teach that minority position.

What they don't get to do is force the majority to give their minority position a platform of equal standing to the majority position. If they want that, they'll have to convince enough people to change positions so that they become the new majority position.

You don't prove them wrong by silencing them. You relegate them to irrelevancy by doing so. If they're not going to adopt your position and you're not going to adopt theirs, that's cool. But you don't have to elevate their positions to a level that they don't warrant either.

They can do what the Creationists do and find another space to promote their opinions.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

No shit, my brother is one of them.


I assure you, you’re not special.

Never thought for a second I was bob, and it’s never been a problem for me, hence the whole “been doing it for centuries”

but let me be honest with ya bob work wasn’t smooth today, I think you’re a “party hack“ troll, and you were an easy target for me to pick on and I am sorry I used you to figuratively “kick the dog”.

I should use my time better...

 

[The Stoat]

Thats how I feel. I really don't like him but may vote for him just as a hedge against the leftist craziness

I suggest everyone vote for him. He's really the only one standing in Leftists way and the only one that appears willing to slow them down to some degree.

 

[TheGreatA]

We're using the same definition of conversation. My point was that right wing media is arming their listeners with fabrications. And those listeners then bring those fabrications to the conversation. They believe that they are responding to the legitimate points and concerns of someone else but they don't realize the extent to which their responses diverge from reality.

When you look at the conversations on a Twitter or a Twitch, you're looking at the end stage of the process, not the beginning. Prior to those "conversations", people had dozens if not hundreds of conversations within echo chambers. And that is where they crystallize the positions they bring to the public conversation.

Let's take the WR for a microcosm of this. Many of the stories on the front page are stories that the posters heard elsewhere, discussed elsewhere, formed an opinion on elsewhere and then come here to argue the validity of the point that they concluded elsewhere. If they formed that opinion in a place that reinforced fantastical ideas then they're not going to change it just because they're discussing it on this social media platform. They're going to double down because their first conversation was with people who told them they were right.

We're the end stage of the conversation. It's the initial point that requires significant examination and that's where you find people consuming Alex Jones rants and treating them like valid news/news opinion, instead of the generic entertainment that it is.

The best way to prevent the existence of fabrications and lies is by disproving them.

I do not really see such a great effort put forth nowadays to disprove the other party, as much as I see an effort to simply prevent them from speaking. The problem with this is that even the party that believes themselves to be "right", and "factually correct", never puts their righteousness or factual accuracy to the test.

Sometimes the toughest tests that I've ever been through, were against people who were clearly incorrect about many of their beliefs, but were also very capable at pointing out possible bullshit or hypocrisy in other people's beliefs.

I have personally never felt incapable of proving somebody wrong, no matter how hell-bent they've been on doubling down on a fabrication, unless they were just outright insane. You just need to have patience, and of course, the facts at your hand. As well as a certain level of respect.

You completely misunderstood what I said. I said that people need to accept when they hold the minority position. They don't have to conform to the majority but they should not pretend that they're part of the majority when they're not.

Well, you said it in the context of banning discussion forums. I don't think whether a person holds the minority or majority position, should necessarily have anything to do with whether they are allowed to discuss their opinions or not, or allowed a platform or not. And considering that Donald Trump became the President of the United States largely by promoting the beliefs that the people within those forums parroted, it's also difficult to say that their opinions are clearly a "minority position". It appears to me that they are quite widely held.

For example - I think people should not place as much emphasis on the equity of their primary residence because it's not real value (for a variety of reasons that are irrelevant to this thread). However, I know that my position is a minority position. Most people don't agree me. I can accept that. I don't and should not pretend that my position is the majority position. Even if I think I'm right, society does not agree with me. So I shouldn't be surprised when society moves in a different direction than I would. That is not a problem with society. That is the inevitability of holding the minority position on societal level issues.

The "how" is being done properly.

Another example: Creationism is now the minority position so we don't teach it in public schools. We don't give it a chapter in the science books. It has been silenced. People who want to teach Creationism can still do it, they can home school, they can send their kids to schools that teach that minority position.

What they don't get to do is force the majority to give their minority position a platform of equal standing to the majority position. If they want that, they'll have to convince enough people to change positions so that they become the new majority position.

You don't prove them wrong by silencing them. You relegate them to irrelevancy by doing so. If they're not going to adopt your position and you're not going to adopt theirs, that's cool. But you don't have to elevate their positions to a level that they don't warrant either.

They can do what the Creationists do and find another space to promote their opinions.

We can't really treat people's personal philosophies, politics, opinions on social matters, as an exact science, comparable to the evolutionary theory and creationism. We require a greater degree of freedom for the "laymen" to talk about those subjects, unlike about matters that are considered to be an area of expertise or science. We need people to be pro-active and engaged in politics because every man possesses a vote.

It is also difficult to gauge which is the "majority" and the "minority" position, as I have already stated. There are plenty of polls that indicate that some pretty questionable ideals are a "majority" position, yet they are not necessarily endorsed by official authorities or corporate platforms. The_Donald was a discussion forum for Trump fans, who were part of a movement which won the American election in 2016, so obviously opinions similar to theirs are held by a very significant number of people among the public.

It's much more likely that these people, who are certainly numerous as evident by America's elections, do not represent the "majority viewpoint" in certain industries, such as big tech, media, entertainment, which certainly are moving away from their views, but that's only within those specific areas, not in the society overall. And big tech, media and entertainment probably should be held to some degree of responsibility, to not just appeal to their own "preferred" audience of high-level executives in a boardroom, but rather the entirety of the public, even those that they are in disagreement with over politics.

This does not mean that they need to particularly cater to that audience, but keeping in line with the spirit of the West, they should allow them a chance to speak their minds, and be engaged in the conversation. Especially as we move towards a more monopolized, uniform corporate structure, with the development of a "fresh, independent alternative" becoming more and more difficult by the day.

 

[bobgeese]

Never thought for a second I was bob, and it’s never been a problem for me, hence the whole “been doing it for centuries”

but let me be honest with ya bob work wasn’t smooth today, I think you’re a “party hack“ troll, and you were an easy target for me to pick on and I am sorry I used you to figuratively “kick the dog”.

I should use my time better...

I am a partisan Republican. I never claimed anything else, unlike every leftist here.

Credit to you for you for realizing your motivation.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

I am a partisan Republican. I never claimed anything else, unlike every leftist here.

Credit to you for you for realizing your motivation.

I mean my points are valid, but yeah there a definite motivation behind it, most of the time I just laugh off y’all’s ignorance.

 

[bobgeese]

I mean my points are valid,

They really aren’t.

Many contractors in my area use Home Depot, and you know damn well you go wherever is closest a good % of the time.

Contractors laugh at "men" that need to pay others to solder a pipe, do electrical, and yes Sheetrock. Men just do it themselves.


Furthermore, your taking of Home Depot as literally only that store, is retarded. The point was productive Americans are busy being productive.

 

[aitkenmike]

For those that are saying this is reddit censoring the right, there are plenty of other right wing cesspools out there still going strong, such as r/conservative. Also a far left wing reddit compared to the donald was banned today as well.

I'm gonna take a stab and say this will be completely ignored for the next 8 pages, and it will be Reddit is anti-right/anti-conservative, not anti-troll or anti-cesspool.

 

[aitkenmike]

r/ChapoTrapHouse was also banned today, and was one of the largest leftist subreddits on the whole site.

4 pages in, and so far i'm right, expect the quoted here to also continue to be ignored in the right wing cries of victimisation.

 

[Mike_Tyson_fan36]

Good riddance to that shit.

 

[andnowweknow]

Good riddance to that shit.

Don't harass me bro.

 

[Ûdun Ghuephd]

I love it how crack head sites that would get banned anyway, and people knew would get banned are justification for banning thousands of accounts and subreddits simply for having opposing views.

The mental gymnastics of the left are 10/10

 

[GearSolidMetal]

 

[Curmudgeon]

Good riddance to that shit.

You didn't visit the sub anyways.

 

[Curmudgeon]

No it just turns out that truly right wing ideas are absolutely despised by popular society. Sorry you're so triggered that your political movement is dead in the water and despised by the public.

I'm right wing? News to me.

 

[HomeCheese]

Reddit does a good job at keeping things civil. Pretty heavily moderated which is impressive for how big it is. I love reddit.

 

[Diogenes of Sinope]

Right-wingers just need to realize that they're unwanted by today's corporate environment. It might push the American right to adopt a platform which actually suits them, which is actually, truly conservative, rather than this pro-corporate, free market, tax breaks for the rich bullshit which has held them back. That's a neo-liberal or "neo-conservative" (a.k.a neo-liberalism with hollow religious pandering) ideology, nothing to do with the right or conservatism.

They've set up their own demise so it's hard to feel sorry about it. But again, maybe it'll help them figure it out. Because the longer this goes, the more they'll become obsolete under today's circumstances.

right-wingers dominate the farms and supply chains.
Its very possible for that to be cut off for you in the near future

 

[Diogenes of Sinope]

It's a private company they can do what they want with their platform.

It's their right.

hilarious how the left picks and chooses when they're ok with capitalism

 

[Rational Poster]

hilarious how the left picks and chooses when they're ok with capitalism

It's even funnier how the right wingers worship capitalism till it starts working against them.