R.I.P. "King" Arthur Williams

[Sinister]

Art was in our gym for sparring just last week. As of right now those of us here in the Vegas Boxing community have only been told he passed in his sleep. He was known for winning a Cruiserweight Title, and for having memorable fights in that division, and being a student of Roy Jones Sr. They called him "Junebug" down there when he was younger. I got to have a lot of good conversations with him about what it was like to learn from Roy, who I think it an incredibly overlooked trainer. Art was one of 4 World Champions he built, and one of many World level Amateurs:



Arthur carried on that legacy as a Coach, spent a lot of time at Johnny Tocco's. His most prominent student being #1 ranked Ethan Smith:

 

[Sinister]

Here's an interview of Ethan:



I think I met that kid when he was 9 or 10.

 

[CobraCmndr6193]

Damn what a shame. I saw him fight Kenny Keene (our local hero) years ago. RIP.

 

[CatchnShoot]

RIP champ. Great career, gone too soon.

 

[Hagler]

TBH I didn't know about the guy but a CW giving a young Chris Byrd all he could handle on a week notice was certainly a capable one. He fought a bunch of names. R.I.P.

 

[Brampton_Boy]

So sad - he was a bit before my time, but I do remember watching him face off against Alexey Ignashov in K1. The man had heart for days and got up from 4 leg kick knockdowns.

 

[Sinister]

So sad - he was a bit before my time, but I do remember watching him face off against Alexey Ignashov in K1. The man had heart for days and got up from 4 leg kick knockdowns.

Roy Jones Sr.'s entire fighting system was unusual for America. But it was eclipsed by the bombast of his Son, who everyone attributed his ability purely to his athletic gifts. This is a falsehood that has relegated one of the most unique boxing programs of modern times to a footnote of the career of one man.

Arthur Williams and Vince Phillips are great examples of how good that program was because they achieved what they did without Roy Jr.'s athletic gifts.



John Scully also was heavily influenced by his time with Roy Sr.:

 

[Sinister]

Also really look at that video of Ethan Smith. When Ethan first started around Vegas he wasn't very highly-regarded. He was a skinny kid, lanky, awkward, skinny neck, small head. He is now one of the most effective boxers in Vegas. Art didn't do everything exactly the same as Big Roy, but the principals are the same and you can see that comparing Ethan's movement and punching style to Art and Vince

EDIT: Here's a video of Ethan from Tocco's from a while back. The kid he's sparring, Jacob Cuevas, was recently a sparring partner for Shakur Stevenson. Ethan is huge now, light heavyweight:

 

[Brampton_Boy]

Roy Jones Sr.'s entire fighting system was unusual for America. But it was eclipsed by the bombast of his Son, who everyone attributed his ability purely to his athletic gifts. This is a falsehood that has relegated one of the most unique boxing programs of modern times to a footnote of the career of one man.

Arthur Williams and Vince Phillips are great examples of how good that program was because they achieved what they did without Roy Jr.'s athletic gifts.



John Scully also was heavily influenced by his time with Roy Sr.:

Do you have any thoughts on Jones' senior and his approach to training? I'm not necessarily talking about his technical or physical approach, but based on the interviews/documentaries I have seen about Roy Jones Jr, the man seemed like he created a pressure cooker environment. It would either create diamonds, or it would explode.

 

[Sinister]

Do you have any thoughts on Jones' senior and his approach to training? I'm not necessarily talking about his technical or physical approach, but based on the interviews/documentaries I have seen about Roy Jones Jr, the man seemed like he created a pressure cooker environment. It would either create diamonds, or it would explode.

I think that's how Roy Jr. felt because he was his Son, that doesnt exactly match other accounts I've heard. His environment was unique, but it wasnt without empathy.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

RIP to the champ. What fights would you guys recommend to see him at his best?

 

[RabbitPunch36]

I think that's how Roy Jr. felt because he was his Son, that doesnt exactly match other accounts I've heard. His environment was unique, but it wasnt without empathy.

Did Roy Sr. ever train anybody notable after his his stable left him? Does he still train anyone at all? He's got to be a pretty jaded man not getting the credit he deserved for building 4 world champions from scratch.

 

[tank666]

Rip. Genuinely confused at first thought it was someone else was thinking of Prince Charles Williams.

 

[Brampton_Boy]

I think that's how Roy Jr. felt because he was his Son, that doesnt exactly match other accounts I've heard. His environment was unique, but it wasnt without empathy.

I think the father/son, coach/student dynamic is a recipe for disaster. How often has that turned out well (relative to the number of times it imploded)? There is too much pressure and too much personal baggage to be objective from either side.

Watching Roy Jones Jr. give an interview about wanting to shoot his dad was actually bone chilling. You could tell he meant every word of it (for context, it was when Jones Sr. shot one of Jr's dogs who got onto his property):

 

[Sinister]

Did Roy Sr. ever train anybody notable after his his stable left him? Does he still train anyone at all? He's got to be a pretty jaded man not getting the credit he deserved for building 4 world champions from scratch.

He trained some very notable Amateurs, but he had problems with funding his program and then everyone believing what Roy Jr said about him making him kind of a pariah.

 

[Sinister]

I think the father/son, coach/student dynamic is a recipe for disaster. How often has that turned out well (relative to the number of times it imploded)? There is too much pressure and too much personal baggage to be objective from either side.

Watching Roy Jones Jr. give an interview about wanting to shoot his dad was actually bone chilling. You could tell he meant every word of it (for context, it was when Jones Sr. shot one of Jr's dogs who got onto his property):

There are actually many notable Father/Son Trainer/Fighter dynamics that worked, theyre just overshadowed by the ones that didnt because controversy is more entertaining. I'm not saying it cant be volatile, and it's not more difficult, but I'd be lying if I said Father Coaches were worse than just plain old fraud Coaches who get fighters brains bashed in with no real consequence they have to live with.

I've heard A LOT about the Roy Joneses from multiple sources. Firstly, according to Roy Sr., he didnt shoot the dog merely because it was there. He shot the dog because it attacked his daughter.

Do you see how the narrative became that Big Roy has no value of the lives of animals? And we are taking testimony from someone who fought his dogs, and was big into cockfighting. But he wanted to shoot his own Father for shooting a dog, seems weird doesnt it? Seems almost like he wanted to shoot his Father for taking something away from him without his permission. Something dangerous to other people. There's a word for that kind of behavior, its narcissism.

 

[Brampton_Boy]

There are actually many notable Father/Son Trainer/Fighter dynamics that worked, theyre just overshadowed by the ones that didnt because controversy is more entertaining. I'm not saying it cant be volatile, and it's not more difficult, but I'd be lying if I said Father Coaches were worse than just plain old fraud Coaches who get fighters brains bashed in with no real consequence they have to live with.

I've heard A LOT about the Roy Joneses from multiple sources. Firstly, according to Roy Sr., he didnt shoot the dog merely because it was there. He shot the dog because it attacked his daughter.

Do you see how the narrative became that Big Roy has no value of the lives of animals? And we are taking testimony from someone who fought his dogs, and was big into cockfighting. But he wanted to shoot his own Father for shooting a dog, seems weird doesnt it? Seems almost like he wanted to shoot his Father for taking something away from him without his permission. Something dangerous to other people. There's a word for that kind of behavior, its narcissism.

Thank you for the insight. The only side of the story I have ever heard is from RJJ, and that doesn't exactly pain a flattering picture of his father.

It's nice to hear a different insider perspective.

At the very least, Boxing dads can be assholes:

Danny Garcia's dad: Asshole
Shawn Porter's dad: Asshole
Teofimo Lopez dad: Asshole
Floyd Mayweather dad: Asshole

Small sample size, but I have actively rooted against fighters because of just how big of a jerk their dads are. Garcia Sr. being the worst offender.

 

[Dr Fong]

RIP

I've always respected any over the crossover boxing/k1/MMA guys.

Interesting that Williams and Vince Phillips came out of the same camp and both guys had balls of steel to say 'f*ck it' and take on K1 elite with no training in their 40s.

Williams also won the IBF title by beating Imamu Mayfield, who fought Fujita in MMA, and then followed it up by beating Art 'one glove' Jimmerson. Also knocked out Rick Roufus.

So that era seemed stocked with prizefighters who were down to fight anyone in any discipline.

 

[Sinister]

Thank you for the insight. The only side of the story I have ever heard is from RJJ, and that doesn't exactly pain a flattering picture of his father.

It's nice to hear a different insider perspective.

At the very least, Boxing dads can be assholes:

Danny Garcia's dad: Asshole
Shawn Porter's dad: Asshole
Teofimo Lopez dad: Asshole
Floyd Mayweather dad: Asshole

Small sample size, but I have actively rooted against fighters because of just how big of a jerk their dads are. Garcia Sr. being the worst offender.

I've met 3 of the 4 Dads you mentioned. The only one I couldnt stand was Teofimo's Dad. He kept going on and on about how his Son was the best ever. He was wearing sunglasses in a room that absolutely didnt require it, and he didn't have eye problems. But...Teofimo did smack Rolly around that day in sparring so there's that.

Kenny Porter and Floyd Sr. are cool with me. Kenny was training people at our gym recently and always seemed gracious. I spent a lot of time around Floyd Sr. He definitely likes both fame a d infamy, and money, but I never once had a problem with him. Remember he beat up Charlie Z for us also lol.

I think a lot of these guys who push their Sons, the Sons end up without a personality. Or at least the personality seems to be that they NEED attention. Teofimo and Floyd came off that way. Their Dads kinda try to make up for their kid not being as bombastic as they think they should be. I dont have to worry about that. My Son has tons of personality and people likely will either love or hate him. I can be the reserved one lol

It is an interesting dynamic, I just say not to get swept up into stereotypes. For every Garcia or Lopez, there are guys like Anatoly Lomanchenko, or Jose Morales.

But in the case of Big Roy, Arthur gave me a lot of insight as to what that program was like for everyone who wasnt Roy Jr. And from what he said, Roy Jr. was always the favorite. He did get pushed the hardest, but he also got the most leeway where the others had to earn everything. By the time Roy Jr. was 16 he was already pretty much a star, and he carried himself like it. There arent a ton of interviews of Big Roy, but from what Arthur said and what I've been able to find he actually took responsibility for missteps he made as a Father that led to their split, and still always advocated and cared for his Son.

 

[Sinister]

RIP

I've always respected any over the crossover boxing/k1/MMA guys.

Interesting that Williams and Vince Phillips came out of the same camp and both guys had balls of steel to say 'f*ck it' and take on K1 elite with no training in their 40s.

Williams also won the IBF title by beating Imamu Mayfield, who fought Fujita in MMA, and then followed it up by beating Art 'one glove' Jimmerson. Also knocked out Rick Roufus.

So that era seemed stocked with prizefighters who were down to fight anyone in any discipline.

Well, to be fair they were also desparate for money at that point. But were they brave? Absolutely. That's something Big Roy definitely developed. His fighters werent averse to taking their licks like mature warriors.