QUIT Making up names for moves!!

At least nobody nicknamed the Triangle as "The Fellatio" yet even though you're pulling down someone's head between your legs

While naming does over-complicate things, makes things more confusing and shows personality flaws for the guy who bothered to come up with ridiculously unnecessary names like "the unicorn" or "crackwhore" (wtf?) can you imagine if NOBODY bothered to name stuff?

Can you imagine never calling the Darce/Brabo by those names but rather the "Inverted/Reverse Arm Triangle?" What about the Kimura? Would you rather call it the Figure-Four Entangled Armlock or Chicken Wing Armlock instead of the Kimura? Yes it's really stupid most of the time, but you can't deny that once in awhile, it's too convenient not to.

And one day someone's going to name a certain collar choke the Roger choke (Marcelo already has a pass "named" after him even though he didn't make it up)...and nobody's going to mind
 
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We recently had a black belt join our gym from Brazil. He calls the Kimura the Americana.

I love the idea of just working on my basics until I can legitimately add the suffix "- from hell!" to the move.
 
Hillary, I agree with you completely. But I do think you need to be able to know whether someone is talking about a D'arce or a regular arm triangle (shoulder choke a la Lesnar) or whether someone is speaking of a Keylock or a Kimura.

Joint locks
Armbar
Keylock
Kimura
Omoplata
Achilles Lock
Kneebar
Heel hook
Toe hold

Chokes without Gi
Triangle
Shoulder choke (std arm triangle)
D'arce choke
Anaconda choke
Peruvian Necktie
RNC
Gogoplata
Guillotine (added)

Gi Chokes
Ezekiel choke
Cross choke
Baseball bat choke
Bow & Arrow choke
Lapel choke

I don't think you need any more than this basically. These pretty much covers every single submission you will ever learn. I can't see why someone would need to name every single variation of a submission, be it inverted, reverse, from guard etc...

Please comment on this list, discuss if you think there are some that should not be there, or some that are missing.

*EDIT*
Nice!!! Just got my yellow belt... awesome! :D
 
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Calibur said:
...

Judo has names for most things, and they do just fine. Hell, wrestling has names for most of the moves they have.

...
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Which means most BJJ moves also have names that much of the grappling world is already familiar with.

Judo uses the Japanese names, which have been around for a long time, to make it uniform throughout the world. Most of this renaming isn't to help people remember. It's to market. And it's amusing how BJJ people are now getting mad at some upstarts trying to rebrand the system...Some traditions have reasons.
 
I think TS is confusing her hatred of silly names (and I agree) with the desire to just have no names to describe extra intricacies or innovations. Rather than try to impose a limit on all of the names that are allowed, we could do with just having more suitable names.

If Los Angeles was called Biscuit Bongo, you wouldn't remove its ridiculous name completely and refer to it as "that place in California, wait, let me point to it on a map". You'd just rename it sensibly. Just as LA is not all of California, "Mission Control" is not all of the guard game. (Who can argue with such logic, especially logic that worked the phrase "Biscuit Bongo" into it so seamlessly).

I agree that Mission Control, Chill Dog and Crackhead Control sound a bit gay, but they are still valid unique positions that benefit from having distinct names.
 
Arguing Against Specificity - Ummm no, sorry, but there is an appreciable difference between a guillotine and a D'arce and being able to refer to each specifically accelerates and facilitates discussion.

Arguing Against Tunnel Vision While Rolling - I can dig this, but it's not inherently bad. If your objective is to improve a specific move, well chasing it like a mad man is not bad. However, that is one aspect of training and it's probably detrimental to make it the sole method of training.

Arguing Against Asinine Names like "crackwhore" or "thundering tornado hammer" - I'm all for this, it reeks of TMA at best and makes us look like baffoons at worst. I recall once I sat in on a karate (I think) class and the move of the day was the "sword of destruction". I was expecting something jaw-dropping but it was basically a parry into a wrist lock into a "karate chop" the the back of the neck, yawn, even as a ley person I was massively unimpressed, I hope that doesn't seep into BJJ.
 
AboveThisFire said:
Did you at least like the rest of the thread (keep in mind in the analysis I just called it a triangle from crucifix with a straight armbar).

My fragile ego can't handle harsh criticisms of my contributions haha.
Click to expand...

haha is this really Kid Nate?

I did not mean to be harsh . . . the only article I have not liked on BE in the past year I've been following it was the recent Jonathan Snowden article on the Brock/Carwin fight.
 
fiftysvn said:
haha is this really Kid Nate?

I did not mean to be harsh . . . the only article I have not liked on BE in the past year I've been following it was the recent Jonathan Snowden article on the Brock/Carwin fight.
Click to expand...

I'm not Nate, I'm listed in the article under the analysis part. Nate's a cool guy though, he's cool with criticism, my fragile ego would crack and have a breakdown though.

Kidding, but yeah, read the rest of the article (I'm the quoted section on a bunch of the chops typically).

Dude, also I agree with you, Snowden had no clue on that article. I facepalmed after reading that one.
 
better having some names for shit imo.. not retarded things like unicorn or whatever but meaningful names.
 
If you're going to name something, you really need to follow the KISS rule. (IE: Keep it simple stupid) Calling something a D'Arce choke or an Anaconda choke to differentiate is far different than describing the Eletric Chair sweep being blocked to the Whip Up into a Dogfight where you limp arm (OK, that one's not so bad) but get blocked and end up having to sweep into Spider Web.

And yes, that sequence is a real 10th Planet sequence. To be fair, catch wrestling calls the Lockdown the Scorpion Deathlock (wasn't that Sting's version of the Sharpshooter?) so it's not just one school of thought.
 
To be fair, though I have criticized the ridiculous amount of names there are for seemingly every variation of every move in BJJ, Judo is just the opposite. There is a complete under-classification of techniques. And while there isn't a need to differentiate every variation, the under-classification can also be extremely confusing at times. Sankaku Jime, for example, encompasses a long list of strangles and regardless of whether or not they have a specific name, the variation needs to be clarified in SOME manner.
 
I don't think all moves warrent having their own names, and most of the ones that do already have perfectly good names.

If a move comes along that needs naming, let's stick to something that is either descriptive, or helps people visualize the technique.
 
Hillary said:
NOT a direct shot at Eddie. Eddie's a good grappler who has his own little subgame of nogi (read: not new system) that's very good for flexible people. I just hate everyone who has to name stuff. There's a leglock guy in BFE, Tennessee that Cavaca and Roli train with--he uses four terms: toe hold, heel hook, knee bar, ankle break (he doesn't say ankle lock, he's a little intense). And this guy will show you 400 in an hour. It makes it so much more conceptual and...better.
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so when i judo throw a 300 pound girl I can't call it a "hillary" anymore?

I think i have to sit down, getting dizzy, having chest pains
 
Just my two cents.

For those of you who dont know, I'm a teacher by profession and by university.

Giving things outlandish names is a teaching technique called strong encoding. When you want a student to remember something it is important to vary the instruction and provide cues that are easily recalled. The "unicorn" is a great example of this (not that I think it was on purpose) and I'll always remember someone calling the triangle with a leg in the "unicorn" although I've never actually heard anyone call it that.

With that being said it's also important to point out that strong encoding is used with the teaching cues, not with the name of a technique. Teaching cues are the important things your instructor tells you to remember while practicing the move like "keep your arm tight, hug his hips, head low", these are all examples of teaching cues. When you give a student more than two or three cues to remember it's very important to name the most important ones something outlandish.

For example when I teach the armbar defense from closed guard I feel that the stack is the most important thing in the whole move and instead of saying "stack your opponent" I'll say "crush your opponents face" (keeping in mind that we talk about being nice to our training partners). So keep in mind, that not all outlandish names are by people who smoke pot or partake in other recreational substances (which I do not).

Also, think of the naming of techniques as highly important from a teaching perspective. If I do not name techniques then how can I produce a curriculum that encompasses all the knowledge of Brazilian Jiujitus? How can I plan a lesson that will take place three or four months from now? One of the reasons this has not been an issue in Brazil (where I currently train) is because they have no set standard, curriculum, or lesson plans...this is maddening and crazy. Very rarely have I been to a school where the instructor has any rhyme or reason to what they are teaching between one day and the next, never mind three months from now.

I have talked about this before on the forum. There is a transition in the way BJJ is being taught. I'm not going to say it's a revolution, becuase honestly the teaching principles are not new, they are just being applied to a sport that everyone here loves. But prepare yourself that we are moving away from the Master/Apprentice teaching style and more to the Teacher/Student and Coach/Athlete styles (which are different also).

So to wrap it up, I think we need to name techniques, I think that goofy names for the cues within the techniques are needed but I laugh at the names just like everyone else. For me it's not about the glory of having my own technique, it's about being able to give that technique to someone else.

The Gerbil
 
Gerbiljiujitsu said:
Just my two cents.

For those of you who dont know, I'm a teacher by profession and by university.

Giving things outlandish names is a teaching technique called strong encoding. When you want a student to remember something it is important to vary the instruction and provide cues that are easily recalled. The "unicorn" is a great example of this (not that I think it was on purpose) and I'll always remember someone calling the triangle with a leg in the "unicorn" although I've never actually heard anyone call it that.

With that being said it's also important to point out that strong encoding is used with the teaching cues, not with the name of a technique. Teaching cues are the important things your instructor tells you to remember while practicing the move like "keep your arm tight, hug his hips, head low", these are all examples of teaching cues. When you give a student more than two or three cues to remember it's very important to name the most important ones something outlandish.

For example when I teach the armbar defense from closed guard I feel that the stack is the most important thing in the whole move and instead of saying "stack your opponent" I'll say "crush your opponents face" (keeping in mind that we talk about being nice to our training partners). So keep in mind, that not all outlandish names are by people who smoke pot or partake in other recreational substances (which I do not).

Also, think of the naming of techniques as highly important from a teaching perspective. If I do not name techniques then how can I produce a curriculum that encompasses all the knowledge of Brazilian Jiujitus? How can I plan a lesson that will take place three or four months from now? One of the reasons this has not been an issue in Brazil (where I currently train) is because they have no set standard, curriculum, or lesson plans...this is maddening and crazy. Very rarely have I been to a school where the instructor has any rhyme or reason to what they are teaching between one day and the next, never mind three months from now.

I have talked about this before on the forum. There is a transition in the way BJJ is being taught. I'm not going to say it's a revolution, becuase honestly the teaching principles are not new, they are just being applied to a sport that everyone here loves. But prepare yourself that we are moving away from the Master/Apprentice teaching style and more to the Teacher/Student and Coach/Athlete styles (which are different also).

So to wrap it up, I think we need to name techniques, I think that goofy names for the cues within the techniques are needed but I laugh at the names just like everyone else. For me it's not about the glory of having my own technique, it's about being able to give that technique to someone else.

The Gerbil
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Quality post.
 
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