Questions -- first judo class tonight

[Fedorzilla]

Ok, so I'm a purple belt in jiu jitsu, but we have this sick Judo instructor who now teaches judo once a week (tonight). He's been coming to the jiu jitsu classes and he's just a fucking machine. Anyway, I wanted to ask you guys about a few quick things.

First, I'd imagine I should stick with a white belt even though it's our BJJ gym

Second, I am a former wrestler, and primarily rely on wrestling takedowns in competitions. So, I am curious about whether you are permitted to grab the legs in some judo schools/classes. As I understand it, previously you could grab the legs in judo but the rules were changed. Notwithstanding the rule change, do some judo schools still permit the grabbing of the legs in training?

Third, if leg grabbing is permitted, what "wrestling" type takedowns are permitted in judo?

 

[judogido]

In a pure judo context, NO leg grabs are permitted as a direct attack. ie; you CANNOT grab the legs ie; shoot singles, doubles, firemens etc.

You CAN do leg grabs as a counter to an attack, ie, he attacks with a shoulder throw and you counter by doing a single leg (te-guruma).

MOST judo clubs train for competition, therefore pretty much anywhere you go you won't be able to do leg-grabs.

However, if he's teaching judo for BJJ, then his approach might be different and he might allow a lot of things that aren't allowed at "regular" judo classes. For example, "illegal" judo grips like pistol gripping or same-side gripping.

But instead of using your wrestling, you should embrace and try to learn/practice the judo style (more upright posture and blocking with the hips rather than ent over and sprawl defense) plus pick up on those judo techniques that wrestling does not focus on so much.

 

[Falufalump]

If I remember right you can grab the legs as a counter attack, but not initially.

But, that is just my remembering what I have read here >.<.

 

[Fedorzilla]

In a pure judo context, NO leg grabs are permitted as a direct attack. ie; you CANNOT grab the legs ie; shoot singles, doubles, firemens etc.

You CAN do leg grabs as a counter to an attack, ie, he attacks with a shoulder throw and you counter by doing a single leg (te-guruma).

MOST judo clubs train for competition, therefore pretty much anywhere you go you won't be able to do leg-grabs.

However, if he's teaching judo for BJJ, then his approach might be different and he might allow a lot of things that aren't allowed at "regular" judo classes. For example, "illegal" judo grips like pistol gripping or same-side gripping.

But instead of using your wrestling, you should embrace and try to learn/practice the judo style (more upright posture and blocking with the hips rather than ent over and sprawl defense) plus pick up on those judo techniques that wrestling does not focus on so much.

Thanks, and I agree completely. My judo "sucks" (as I've been told by judo practitioners), and I"m interested in developing some throws BTW, what do you mean by no "same side gripping?"

 

[PowerSource]

It depends... you should ask him first. In my school we do judo standing and BJJ ground. Next week we will have NAGA tournament so shooting for legs is allowed while sparring. When we have a Judo tournament coming up, leg grabs are not allowed. So everyone gets used to the rules.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

There are throws you will find are similar to greco-roman stuff, but shooting for the legs isn't allowed in competition. Grabbing the legs is okay on the ground though.

Also, enjoy getting flipped around from weird angles. That's one of the best parts.

 

[Commissar]

Ok, so I'm a purple belt in jiu jitsu, but we have this sick Judo instructor who now teaches judo once a week (tonight). He's been coming to the jiu jitsu classes and he's just a fucking machine. Anyway, I wanted to ask you guys about a few quick things.

First, I'd imagine I should stick with a white belt even though it's our BJJ gym

Second, I am a former wrestler, and primarily rely on wrestling takedowns in competitions. So, I am curious about whether you are permitted to grab the legs in some judo schools/classes. As I understand it, previously you could grab the legs in judo but the rules were changed. Notwithstanding the rule change, do some judo schools still permit the grabbing of the legs in training?

Third, if leg grabbing is permitted, what "wrestling" type takedowns are permitted in judo?

Forget your wrestling takedowns for judo, and focus on the judo takedowns that you will learn. The goal of class should be to improve your judo, not to beat everyone else with your wrestling.

 

[Commissar]

Thanks, and I agree completely. My judo "sucks" (as I've been told by judo practitioners), and I"m interested in developing some throws BTW, what do you mean by no "same side gripping?"

Same side gripping would mean having both hands on the same side of your opponent's lapel, or both hands gripping your opponent's sleeve (ie. same side).

 

[Fedorzilla]

Same side gripping would mean having both hands on the same side of your opponent's lapel, or both hands gripping your opponent's sleeve (ie. same side).

you can't do two-on-ones? WTF?

 

[Commissar]

you can't do two-on-ones? WTF?

Two on ones are typically wrestling. Judo is more about assessing your opponent's balance and determining your attacks based on that, and weight distribution.

 

[The_Duder]

But instead of using your wrestling, you should embrace and try to learn/practice the judo style (more upright posture and blocking with the hips rather than ent over and sprawl defense) plus pick up on those judo techniques that wrestling does not focus on so much.

100% Agree. Even with your JJ background, sticking to Wrestling will not help in your Judo game. Posture is a huge thing in Judo. Wide stance will get you thrown with huge uchi-matas (or at least should).

Forget about your wrestling for several months, learn Judo basics from the ground up, then slowly, once you are familiar with the Judo game - the standing, the gripping, the off-balance, entrance and execution theory - then get your wrestling back in to back it up.

Do not be afraid of falling, as you will never be able to throw anybody. This applies particularly well with Randori, or, free-play.

Good luck, I am sure you will have fun!

P.S. Leg grabbing is also permitted as an attack, as long as it is a combination. For example, you go for ouchi gari, then after the opponent steps back, you do kata guruma, or, fireman's carry. Have fun!

 

[seatea]

Practice your break-falls like you would any other technique, they will make your Judo lessons less painfull.

 

[judogido]

you can't do two-on-ones? WTF?

You CAN - however there is not an unlimited use of them permitted.

If you get a 2-on-1 grip, you must attack ie; you cannot simply get that grip and simply stall, or jockey for position etc. There has to be a genuine attack within, technically, 5 seconds (in other words - up to the referee's discretion).

It can't be a feint, or a half-@ssed attack it must be a real, committed attempt to throw. And if this attack is repeatedly blocked and it looks like you have no real chance of that attack working - you can't just keep the 2-on-1 grip and keep trying, the referee's patience will wear thin and you will get a warning/penalty.

So: use the same side grip selectively but attack soon once you have it.

 

[Fedorzilla]

You CAN - however there is not an unlimited use of them permitted.

If you get a 2-on-1 grip, you must attack ie; you cannot simply get that grip and simply stall, or jockey for position etc. There has to be a genuine attack within, technically, 5 seconds (in other words - up to the referee's discretion).

It can't be a feint, or a half-@ssed attack it must be a real, committed attempt to throw. And if this attack is repeatedly blocked and it looks like you have no real chance of that attack working - you can't just keep the 2-on-1 grip and keep trying, the referee's patience will wear thin and you will get a warning/penalty.

So: use the same side grip selectively but attack soon once you have it.

Thank you for the heads up.

 

[Rod1]

You CAN - however there is not an unlimited use of them permitted.

If you get a 2-on-1 grip, you must attack ie; you cannot simply get that grip and simply stall, or jockey for position etc. There has to be a genuine attack within, technically, 5 seconds (in other words - up to the referee's discretion).

It can't be a feint, or a half-@ssed attack it must be a real, committed attempt to throw. And if this attack is repeatedly blocked and it looks like you have no real chance of that attack working - you can't just keep the 2-on-1 grip and keep trying, the referee's patience will wear thin and you will get a warning/penalty.

So: use the same side grip selectively but attack soon once you have it.

Beat me to it.

About wrestling, dont be afraid of using wrestling, specially since its Judo for BJJ, however if everyone its a noob at standup or wrestling focused you wont be able to tell whether something its "doable" or not.

For example, most forms and entries of single legs send you flying in judo, double legs get suffed easily too if not properly setup, that wont show up if you use single and doubles vs people with no experience whatsoever.

About leg grabs and 2 on 1s etc etc, i outright tell people i do randori, to do "old judo" unless they are active competitors, against people i know competed in other days, i tell them "old judo or new judo?".

Leg grabs suck when they are abused and used to avoid combat, used in the context of a well developed judo, they give more possibilities and make the game more interesting

 

[seatea]

Don't worry too much about gripping rules and the like, if you do something against these particular rules you're not gonna get in trouble as they are more to do with keeping the Judo flowing rather than safety. Besides, if these lessons are being taught with BJJ in mind then they won't apply anyway.

 

[selfcritical]

you can't do two-on-ones? WTF?

You can do a russian tie.

 

[redaxe]

You can grip (the outside of) the gi or the belt just about any way you like, as long as you immediately attack. But if you don't go for a throw right away you will get penalized for stalling.

Congrats on your purple! When did that happen? I remember you saying not long ago that you were still a blue belt after getting it like 5 years ago, so it sounds like you were overdue.

 

[Fedorzilla]

You can grip (the outside of) the gi or the belt just about any way you like, as long as you immediately attack. But if you don't go for a throw right away you will get penalized for stalling.

is this just for 2-on-1 grips or are there other "time limit" grips?

Congrats on your purple! When did that happen? I remember you saying not long ago that you were still a blue belt after getting it like 5 years ago, so it sounds like you were overdue.

Thanks, man. Got it this year after Abu Dhabi. (fitting with this thread, I lost out to a guy on the Canadian Olympic judo team). My instructor had basically been telling me for months prior that he was just going to give it to me after that competition. I got a lot of shit from other people for being overdue, but it happens. There were a few times prior where I was probably close, but then I got injured and sat out a while, took the bar exam, moved to Shanghai, or random other things that just happen to all of us along the way. Anyway, no big deal and still just in the gym training and getting schooled by my instructor.

 

[redaxe]

is this just for 2-on-1 grips or are there other "time limit" grips?

Yeah, belt grips, same side grips, essentially any grip besides this

I think even double collar or double sleeve grips are considered stalling grips if you hold them for more than about five seconds without attacking. And I think a double belt grip is completely illegal.

In Judo it's pretty easy to stall the action and only defend by getting a strong grip, holding onto it, and just constantly moving your hips away from your opponent and/or pushing his hips away from you when he attacks. So they made a bunch of rules to prevent this and referees in Judo are pretty quick to call stalling to prevent this.

That said, unless you plan on actually competing in Judo, you should still practice the leg attacks for BJJ--just learn to combine them with Judo throws. There are some awesome throw sequences you can do in Judo from the russian tie position, for example, some of which involve fireman's carry / kata guruma type finishes, and even though they stupidly made that illegal in comps now, it's worth working on it for your BJJ.

I also just read an article saying that in Judo matches where both guys secured mutual grips (pictured above) the match went to the time limit the majority of the time. You have to get your grip while also denying your opponent his, if you want to successfully throw him.