Question on GSPs Armbar and Kimura v Hardy

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Jandur, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. Jandur

    Jandur Brown Belt

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    GSP has stated many times that he used "improper" technique when applying these submissions on Hardy.

    Can anyone here attest to what was wrong with them? I don't have any gifs or anything but to my untrained eyes, the armbar at the very least seemed to be in tight and he was controlling Hardy's body.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. Groundwizard101

    Groundwizard101 Orange Belt

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    too much grease?

    I'm curious as well
     
  3. DkMacaw

    DkMacaw Brown Belt

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    I don't do much grappling but to me it looked like GSP was stretching Hardy's shoulder instead of applying leverage on his elbow during that armbar.
     
  4. Jandur

    Jandur Brown Belt

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    Oh god, please don't... :D
     
  5. Jandur

    Jandur Brown Belt

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    I noticed that as well, it looked like he was moving Hardy's arm from side to side trying to torque the shoulder instead of putting pressure on the elbow joint. I just wasn't sure if this was standard or what.
     
  6. CouchStud

    CouchStud Purple Belt

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    Main problem with armbar is that he allowed Hardy to push his arm towards his head and flip over.

    As for the botched kimura, he didn't bend Hardy's elbow enough. The angle of that elbow was way too large and it allows a lot of play such that there isn't much pressure applied to the shoulders.
     
  7. Rocked

    Rocked Brown Belt

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    One thing just rewatching Gif's of the armbar, was he's legs were lazy. Their was no knee pinch on the elbow of Hardy. Then yes his ankles were crossed, but you can still finish from there. Then I don't think he had the thumb up. If he would have rotated with Hardy. He could have finished belly down.
     
  8. Siple5

    Siple5 Purple Belt

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    I would say his arm bar was applied correctly,but only had it tight for a couple seconds before Hardy got out of it, I actually feel that GSP let Hardy out of the kimura when he realized the only way that the fight was going to be stopped if GSP did permanant damage on Hardy's shoulder and is such a nice guy that he let Hardy off the hook.

    I watched that Kimura like 10x and GSP had it in perfectly and 99% of people would have tapped from ...
     
  9. Team Sleep

    Team Sleep Black Belt

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  10. BudMan

    BudMan +++Harold Ramis+++

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    I didnt see the fight but the most common mistake with kimura is you do not get the hand close enough to the back. Ideally you want the back of the guys hand to make contact and drag up his back.
     
  11. hilbilygangsta

    hilbilygangsta Orange Belt

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    A guy told me on the armbar he should have wrapped one or both arms around hardys forearm so he couldn't wiggle it, instead of just holding it by the wrist.
     
  12. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Lemme try to find that video of Danaher correcting the mistakes in the locker room that night with GSP...

    EDIT: Looks like the UFC took the video down. Basically, Danaher and Renzo told GSP to tighten the knees on the armlock. GSP's legs were pretty far apart, even though he still had good control and pressure on the arm. As Hardy began to escape, GSP pushed the arm sideways into his thigh, and that didn't get the finish. Danaher explained that if GSP's legs were tighter, there would not have been a need to have to move the arm sideways against the thigh.

    The Kimura was tighter than the armbar. The problem was that GSP stayed in-line with Hardy's body, instead of bringing his body perpendicular to Hardy's to finish with the left leg over the head to prevent Hardy from sitting up. Renzo talks about that:

    “It was a very simple question. When he was doing the Kimura lock, instead of being at 12 o’clock, he should have been at 9 o’clock,” said Gracie. “Like his lower body shouldn’t have been here, that would give him the leverage to actually get the guy’s arm to break.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2010
  13. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Everyone does the Kimura alittle different though, and you would be hard pressed to find a consensus even among black belts on exactly how much to bend the arm. Some people like to bend the arm more than 90 degrees, some like to bend less than 90 degrees. I still here different things all the time, and I have to make adjustments from person to person. One guy will tap instantly when his arm is straighter and is almost impossible to tap as you bring the shoulder closer. He has Roger Huerta flexibility. Other people I have to keep the hand very close to the back.

    BTW, this is awesome if you like Kimuras. Check this link out and tell me what you think man. Do you think Gray could have done anything to finish this one in your opinion?

    Bloody Elbow Judo Chop: Gray Maynard's Kimura + Head Scissors on Roger Huerta at UFN 19 - Bloody Elbow
     
  14. MaiaBJJ

    MaiaBJJ Green Belt

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    I haven't been doing BJJ long and I can readily see what he did wrong.

    Armbar: He didn't pinch his legs together. Hardy was able to move his arm because his arm wasn't pinned between GSP's legs.

    Kimura: GSP didn't keep Hardy's arm close to his back. Ideally, a kimura should slide up the person's back like you're trying to make them touch their own shoulder blade.
     
  15. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    It's also a good idea to keep their elbow glued to your chest when applying a kimura.
     
  16. Jamil

    Jamil White Belt

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    If I remember right, GSP was trying to finish the armbar on his groin. That's not good jiu jitsu, especially against flexible people like Hardy. Keep the knees tight so you're finishing on the inside of the thighs instead of the crotch. He was probably moving Hardy's arm to the side because he was trying to find more leverage or it was crushing his nuts.

    I can't remember much about the kimura, but I do remember it looked painful. Some submissions just don't work on some people.
     
  17. cooltoon999

    cooltoon999 Orange Belt

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  18. BudMan

    BudMan +++Harold Ramis+++

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    That was pretty insane. I still stick to the technique of dragging the hand up the spine and making them scratch the back of their neck. I have double jointed shoulders and can basically touch the inside of my bicep to the back of my neck (hard to explain). If I do the below stretch, I can make my elbow touch my other shoulder
    [​IMG]

    People have a hard time tapping me with armbars, kimuras, etc. Many literally let it go because they think they broke my arm. But if someone drags my hand up my o back like one guy did to me I am done.

    Anyways, if I was Gray I would have worked on the triangle choke to give Huerta one more thing to worry about. I would have used that for more leverage.
     
  19. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I agree, I saw the triangle there too. People like you are why I choke everyone! :icon_chee That's crazy flexibility man!
     

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