Question: lace leg/lunduke leglock

KingTino

KingTino

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Tried to look around but couldn't find an answer..

Was reviewing some rules on a Grappling tournament I was thinking of maybe entering and came across the following:

Illegal Techniques:
Inside or outside heel hooks (does not include lace leg/lunduke leglocks)

My question is: What does this exactly mean? What is a "lace leg/lunduke leglock"? Are Heel hooks legal or not?

Thanks for any help
 
I only know of a leg lace which is used to roll somebody over. I don't know a submission with it.
 
PhillyD45 said:
I only know of a leg lace which is used to roll somebody over. I don't know a submission with it.
Click to expand...

Was thinking the same thing... Maybe they mean that you exert pressure on the ankle so long as the opponent is not restricted from moving, rolling... I.e. in order to change position, as opposed to end the fight or submit...
 
a leg lace is where the sub is against crossed ankles under your armpit.
 
sambosteve said:
a leg lace is where the sub is against crossed ankles under your armpit.
Click to expand...

That sounds right....

Just to clear up my understanding...

1)Therefore what they mean is that a heel hook is legal when both of his opponents ankles are captured crossed under his armpit?

2) why would this be less dangerous than a std. heel hook?

Am very interested in any new concept i have not come across before... Thanks for your time
 
KingTino said:
That sounds right....

Just to clear up my understanding...

1)Therefore what they mean is that a heel hook is legal when both of his opponents ankles are captured crossed under his armpit?

2) why would this be less dangerous than a std. heel hook?

Am very interested in any new concept i have not come across before... Thanks for your time
Click to expand...

Assuming that the leglace is the ankle crossed under armpit:
Crossed ankles under armpit has several names (double achilles, omnilock, et al) if you use that position to attack the ankles, you have options to do heel hooks, or compress/hyperflex the achilles/calf (the myriad options are why my instructor calls it the omnilock). If heel hooks are illegal, than heelhooks from there are illegal too, I would assume. Also, you'll get a faster, less injury risk tap from the achilles attack in that position.

However, I'm going to conject that the leglace is actually the "thread through" or "saddle" position if you've ever seen Scott Sannon's stuff. That is a way to lace legs together to create a tight grip on 1 leg with 2 of yours. It opens up several 1-leg submission options, like achilles and heelhook. Because it folds the knee inward, it is illegal to reap the knee like this in traditional BJJ, even though you can use it to set up an achilles which is legal. I would fathom a guess the additional qualifications here are for enabling the "saddle".

EDIT: since SamboSteve commented in here, I'd defer to him as the authority on the subject.
 
sambosteve said:
I actually mis-spoke. An ankle lace is when the ankles are crossed and attacked (not necessarily with a heel hook).

A leg lace is what you explain...

Here is a vid:

YouTube - Reilly Bodycomb Ultimate Sambo Grappling Challenge 09
Click to expand...

Steve, on a tangentially related topic, how integral is the "saddle" stuff in Sambo? I bought Sonnon's set, and I personally like the concept of a lower-half game that's got as much R&D and positional work as upper-half stuff for BJJ purposes, but I can't find that much competition footage of people using it. Is it not very common or am I just not looking in the right places? If it is common, could you please tell me some famous Samboists who use it (at your convenience). Sort of in the same vein as Marcelo Garcia is famous for his X-Guard game. Thanks in advance...Dza

disclaimer - I'm not discrediting Sonnon at all, just curious
 
Well, most sambists don't call it the saddle, so you won't find any if you look for that name. But, I think leg lacing and thigh control are essential if you want to be a good leg locker. It can be done without it, but it is better with it.

My students use these positions all the time. Reilly is one example:
YouTube - Reilly Bodycomb Grappling Highlights

Here is a reel from Team American sambo last year at the North East Grappler's Challenge:
YouTube - Team American Sambo Highlight Reel

I will try to find some vids for you, but there are not a whole lot of sambists out there to choose from in no-gi. I have seen Vlad Koulikov use these positions, Doug Fournet, and others. Unless you referring to sambo competitions? I saw a few like that at the worlds this year. Two wins with real nice "Imanari roll" entries too. Brouse my youtube page, you may find some there as well. I will take some time later to look for you. As far as Sonnon students using them in events, I have never seen any video like that...or any of his students at competitions either.

I will say though that these positions are not limited to sambo, there are many others who have used them.
 
sambosteve said:
Well, most sambists don't call it the saddle, so you won't find any if you look for that name. But, I think leg lacing and thigh control are essential if you want to be a good leg locker. It can be done without it, but it is better with it.

My students use these positions all the time. Reilly is one example:
YouTube - Reilly Bodycomb Grappling Highlights

Here is a reel from Team American sambo last year at the North East Grappler's Challenge:
YouTube - Team American Sambo Highlight Reel

I will try to find some vids for you, but there are not a whole lot of sambists out there to choose from in no-gi. I have seen Vlad Koulikov use these positions, Doug Fournet, and others. Unless you referring to sambo competitions? I saw a few like that at the worlds this year. Two wins with real nice "Imanari roll" entries too. Brouse my youtube page, you may find some there as well. I will take some time later to look for you. As far as Sonnon students using them in events, I have never seen any video like that...or any of his students at competitions either.

I will say though that these positions are not limited to sambo, there are many others who have used them.
Click to expand...

Well that explains the main reason I couldn't find it, I was using "saddle" as a key search term. I have no preference for gi or no-gi grappling, I'd just like to see the entries that sambists use to get in there in competition. I'll check out your youtube channel when I get home from work this evening. Thank you very much for your help Steve!
-Dave
 
Holy shit Reilly is super bad ass! I know it was a HL reel but still, that was super impressive. I haven't been on lockflow in a while so I kind of forgot about how epic his grappling was.

EDIT: And Doug Fournet is a monster. Whew...that's some cool stuff :)
 
Yeah Doug is a monster for sure. He was just up here training with us last week. Great guy!
 
sambosteve said:
Yeah Doug is a monster for sure. He was just up here training with us last week. Great guy!
Click to expand...

You know anyone (in your Sambo network) from Rhode Island? I checked the website and there wasn't anything listed, but I didn't know if you knew of anyone who maybe just didn't register.
 
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