question for the "hype train Cormier" people

Hey, Pete, why don't we break our tie on Mir sig/AV bets with this one?

As a completely impartial observer, I say you wait for Mir's next fight where he's not a 3 1/2 to 1 underdog. :D

Just kidding, Petey has confidence. Go for it.

The reality of this fight is that Cormier will dictate where it takes place. Mir has said as much. And while Mir's striking game is more diverse and technically better, Cormier is the better natural athlete, has better hands with plenty of power, and seems to take a shot pretty well. All things that present problems for Mir.

Now, it will be interesting to see if Cormier decides to use his wrestling advantage only for keeping the fight standing or if he would actually take Mir down. Cormier has a nice top control for sure, but he doesn't do a ton of damage with the position. Which would play well for Mir given how aggressive Mir can be off his back. It would be a mistake for people to read too much into how the Barnett fight played out on the mat. Josh is better than Mir with top position, but nowhere near the guard player Mir is.

Cormier should be favored, but Mir is as dangerous a first opponent as they could have chosen for him.
 
As a completely impartial observer, I say you wait for Mir's next fight where he's not a 3 1/2 to 1 underdog. :D

Just kidding, Petey has confidence. Go for it.

No, I'd totally understand if he wouldn't take it. It's not really fair. We made the JDS bet long before the fight actually happened (it was a hypothetical, "if they ever fight" thing at a time when the odds would have been close), and I gave him a chance to back out because the odds were so slanted, but with this there's nothing even remotely binding his decision. But the thing is, I've long seen Mir as a solid, mid-tier gatekeeper who is over his head against elite guys, while some people have strongly disagreed. So this kind of fight is another test of that.

The reality of this fight is that Cormier will dictate where it takes place. Mir has said as much. And while Mir's striking game is more diverse and technically better, Cormier is the better natural athlete, has better hands with plenty of power, and seems to take a shot pretty well. All things that present problems for Mir.

Now, it will be interesting to see if Cormier decides to use his wrestling advantage only for keeping the fight standing or if he would actually take Mir down. Cormier has a nice top control for sure, but he doesn't do a ton of damage with the position. Which would play well for Mir given how aggressive Mir can be off his back. It would be a mistake for people to read too much into how the Barnett fight played out on the mat. Josh is better than Mir with top position, but nowhere near the guard player Mir is.

Cormier should be favored, but Mir is as dangerous a first opponent as they could have chosen for him.

Mir does one thing extremely well, and you can't rule out the possibility of him using that to win this fight, but I don't see any other way he takes it. Cormier's gotta know that, though, so I see him being careful about avoiding it. I think it will be an easy win for him, though I recognize that I'm not saying anything that anyone else doesn't know.
 
Mir will stand with him, and if mir can drop a good kickboxer on his butt then he could drop dc too.

Mir has solid boxing.

Except that Mir does not have to worry about getting taken down by Kongo.
 
I can understand if you are a die-hard Mir fan and have faith in your guy and say "Mir by sub" all the time. I'm not talking to you guys, and to be frank, your numbers are way less than the "hype train getting derailed" guys.

I can understand intelligent debate. Questioning how DC deals with a southpaw. Or questioning his overconfidence on the ground which may set up some risks. Needless to say, a very small minority here on Sherdog.

But I'm seeing a different beast altogether than either of those two. Yes, I'm looking at you "hasn't faced anyone in the UFC yet" people. Did you predict Mir to sub JDS? No? Ok, then what makes you think Olympian Cormier has worse TDD than JDS? I don't underestimate Mir's ability to get a sub any way he can (he make a good effort to get JDS, realizing he couldn't blast him away with traditional TDs) but I don't think Cormier will be that reckless. Short of that, no way in hell is Mir taking him down.

Basically I see this fight as the last hurrah of the "hasn't faced anyone in the UFC yet" crowd. Enjoy it while you can gamblers. Because after this you won't have these guys pushing the lines in your favor.

"Werdum easily ranked in the top 5? Nelson not ranked at all? Doesn't matter... Nelson by KO, he was on TUF."

"Bigfoot ranked? Browne not at all? Doesn't matter... I saw a UFC show talking about Browne."

"Top 5 Overeem one of the hardest hitters and top 5 Brock one of the worst at taking punches? Doesn't matter... Brock by freak athlete, unstoppable TDs, lunchboxes for fists, Harley Davidson the only motorcycle, corn to the core, any other buzzlines that are indicative of the fact I can't come up with my own thoughts."


Now we have top 5 Cormier with a nightmare style (Olympic wrestler with good sub defense, quick speed and power in both hands) against ranked Mir. But yet again... "Mir by sub, DC hasn't fought in the UFC yet." I'm sure gamblers everywhere will miss you guys and your logic. No more SF means no more habitually underrating top 5 guys against guys that win by virtue of having a UFC fighter profile before the fight was announced. It'll be my pleasure to watch you guys scramble to pretend you are Cormier fans after this hype train wins and Dana says you should be praising him and you all fall in line and say you never had doubts.

This is a pretty good write up.. I've got to agree with you, but I don't think you have to prove that Cormier is legit to these folks. He keeps showing in the cage
 
I really don't think there are that many hype train derailment people. What would be REALLY funny is if Cormier did lose because then the collective sherdog posters would implode. It will be fun to watch.

BTW I have Cormier winning. I just think it would be funny if he didn't.
 
I like DC, but am most interested to see if his hand is truly healed. It appeared to me that he was extremely tentative striking in his last SF fight against a grossly outgunned opponent.

I am seriously concerned that if he still has an injury to his hand, or is still affected by the phantom in his mind, and cannot let the power punches flow, he might wind up in trouble.

Again I am picking DC, but there should be cautious concerns with his UFC debut.

- DC can indeed dictate where the fight takes place. If DC decides to take it to the ground, it is highly unlikely that he can submit Frank Mir. If DC cannot fully utilize his fist for striking, his GnP will not be able to stop Frank from taking a limb.

- DC prior to breaking his hand has more power in his hands than Mir does. This coupled with his ability to apply TDD would have put the standup in DC's favor. The hand brings a new variable into the equation though.

- Mir is not a M.T. master by any stretch of the imagination, and he doesn't have Overeem/ Shilt like knees, but his is at least adapt with them. This could prove interesting with DC's stature in a possible shot attempt.
 
I really don't think there are that many hype train derailment people. What would be REALLY funny is if Cormier did lose because then the collective sherdog posters would implode. It will be fun to watch.

BTW I have Cormier winning. I just think it would be funny if he didn't.

Its bored to read the same about "Sherdog imploding" , "Im calling now the upset" or "Y fighter is gonna get an easy W over X fighter", please, use the brain to analize , I can be a fan of a fighter but I understand their limitations and recognize when there is a rival that is very dangerous, Mir has a great submission game but his stand up is not "great" , not even good, 6 losses for KO and only 3 wins dont said much about his boxing
 
"Jon Jones, a freak athlete with an amazing wrestling background and dangerous striking, vs an old washed up guy that is .500 in the UFC? Doesn't matter, Shogun fought in PRIDE!"

I have no idea who this quote is supposed to be. Not only that but I want to commend whoever made this quote for INVENTING a time machine so that he can travel from one point in time (when Shogun is .500... ie: now) to another point in time (UFC 128 when Shogun was LHW champ) and predicting the future... AND then makes up quotes that have nothing to do with a thread in 2013 (ie: this one). Impressive to say the least.

Hype trains aren't real. New, exciting fighters are talked about fervently, but no derailing occurs. Instead, good fighters lose to other good fighters all the time and the hoopla dies down. Yet, they're still good fighters. Everyone loses.
Generic and yet quite relevant/true. Nicely put.

I'm not even a Mir fan, I just don't think Cormier is that good. He's too one-dimensional and the one thing he excels at is the one thing that will leave him exposed to Mir's most dangerous weapon.

His stand-up is nothing to write home about. Neither is Mir's, but you can't even compare the level of competition both guys have faced. I'd say Cormier might be slightly better on the striking department but Mir is dangerous even when rocked and battered.

I think Frank pulls the upset, yes.
Fair enough. I think what gives Cormier the edge over Frank standing is speed most of all. Variety too, since DC has some good kicks even though most remember the bombs he threw at Bigfoot. Frank has variety too though, I actually think he'll try and keep some distance in order to avoid the clinch this time.

A Josh is better than Mir with top position, but nowhere near the guard player Mir is.

Cormier should be favored, but Mir is as dangerous a first opponent as they could have chosen for him.
IF Cormier STAYS in guard though is the question... Cormier appears to have a pretty good passing game and got pressure from on top in order to create some openings
 
I'll enjoy remembering this time on Sherdog, when Mir was considered a dangerous first fight for DC and not a gimmee fight for his debut. Because if Cormier wins, that will be the new Sherdog narrative, immediately.
 
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Comier has been impressive so far.

He deserves the chance cause dude's got potential.

And beating Mir at this point means he could at least be considered beyond the "gatekeeper" level.
 
mir should take a page outta werdum's book on playing possum falling to the ground.
 
Well, fanboys is a bad name because IMO it's an insult to actual fan boys. They deserve a name for themselves

When they started calling him the "Black Fedor" that was completely mind boggling

Smh. He's called Black Fedor because they have the same body type, no one has said that he's on Fedor's level.

It's kinda sad that someone needs to make a thread about how Cormier isn't a hype train. Ffs, he's a highly decorated Olympic wrestler who has displayed some great boxing. When you beat legit top 10 fighters like Silva and Barnett, guess what, you're no longer a hypetrain.
 
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Well put TS. The mentality that everything other than UFC is bush league is something that still stems from the times when Strikeforce wasnt bought out by UFC, progaganda basically.

Dana changed his tune quick enough, but some mindless sheep still think 'b-league' in the back of their heads whenever someone picks a SF fighter over a UFC fighter based on rational comparisons of styles and skills. Overeem - Lesnar still had to be the biggest blow to date, but the delusions still wouldnt stop. The fact that all of a sudden Frank Mir, maybe the most hated figure in all of sherdog, gets so much support really just shows you how that mindset implanted by Dana White is still alive and well.
 
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