question for the "hype train Cormier" people

[Dionysian]

I can understand if you are a die-hard Mir fan and have faith in your guy and say "Mir by sub" all the time. I'm not talking to you guys, and to be frank, your numbers are way less than the "hype train getting derailed" guys.

I can understand intelligent debate. Questioning how DC deals with a southpaw. Or questioning his overconfidence on the ground which may set up some risks. Needless to say, a very small minority here on Sherdog.

But I'm seeing a different beast altogether than either of those two. Yes, I'm looking at you "hasn't faced anyone in the UFC yet" people. Did you predict Mir to sub JDS? No? Ok, then what makes you think Olympian Cormier has worse TDD than JDS? I don't underestimate Mir's ability to get a sub any way he can (he make a good effort to get JDS, realizing he couldn't blast him away with traditional TDs) but I don't think Cormier will be that reckless. Short of that, no way in hell is Mir taking him down.

Basically I see this fight as the last hurrah of the "hasn't faced anyone in the UFC yet" crowd. Enjoy it while you can gamblers. Because after this you won't have these guys pushing the lines in your favor.

"Werdum easily ranked in the top 5? Nelson not ranked at all? Doesn't matter... Nelson by KO, he was on TUF."

"Bigfoot ranked? Browne not at all? Doesn't matter... I saw a UFC show talking about Browne."

"Top 5 Overeem one of the hardest hitters and top 5 Brock one of the worst at taking punches? Doesn't matter... Brock by freak athlete, unstoppable TDs, lunchboxes for fists, Harley Davidson the only motorcycle, corn to the core, any other buzzlines that are indicative of the fact I can't come up with my own thoughts."

Now we have top 5 Cormier with a nightmare style (Olympic wrestler with good sub defense, quick speed and power in both hands) against ranked Mir. But yet again... "Mir by sub, DC hasn't fought in the UFC yet." I'm sure gamblers everywhere will miss you guys and your logic. No more SF means no more habitually underrating top 5 guys against guys that win by virtue of having a UFC fighter profile before the fight was announced. It'll be my pleasure to watch you guys scramble to pretend you are Cormier fans after this hype train wins and Dana says you should be praising him and you all fall in line and say you never had doubts.

 

[Peteyandjia]

This takedown worked pretty good for Mir.

 

[DarthChen731]

Tl;dr

But I agree, anybody who thinks Cormier sux is stupid.

 

[cyriljd]

every fighter is "the next big thing" until they lose once, then they are "overrated and exposed".

 

[axewand]

Mir needs to worry about getting controlled by DC on the ground. IMO Mir beats DC on the feet. Yes.

 

[mrsinister]

I haven't seen many predict Mir by sub. I can't see that happening unless Cormier gets cocky and feels like he wants to prove a point by going to the ground with Mir.

Although DC should be the favorite, I can see him doing better in the stand-up than most people think.

Really, though, I don't like this match-up. Now's the time to do a round-robin with Mir, Barnett, and Werdum to see who has the best MMA subs. I think most real fans would rather see that.

 

[rlm81]

Given how lopsided the betting odds are for this fight this crowd does not put their money where their mouth is.

 

[Just Jared]

Really, though, I don't like this match-up. Now's the time to do a round-robin with Mir, Barnett, and Werdum to see who has the best MMA subs. I think most real fans would rather see that.

I agree whole heartedly. I don't understand what this fight is even supposed to prove if Cormier wants to challenge Jones. Shouldn't he be working on cutting to LHW so he can fight somebody like Hendo, Davis or Rashad and earn a title shot there?

 

[Surepuppy**]

I just hope Cormier loses. He's way to cocky for taking two rounds put away a can on that last SF show.

 

[Mikeyz]

Tl;dr

But I agree, anybody who thinks Cormier sux is stupid.

He doesn't suck, I agree with that. But he isn't as good as his fanboys make him out to be and he is definitely overhyped

 

[Substance Abuse]

Hype trains aren't real. New, exciting fighters are talked about fervently, but no derailing occurs. Instead, good fighters lose to other good fighters all the time and the hoopla dies down. Yet, they're still good fighters. Everyone loses.

 

[Substance Abuse]

He doesn't suck, I agree with that. But he isn't as good as his fanboys make him out to be and he is definitely overhyped

Who is over hyping him? His fan boys? There is your problem, having an issue with his rabid fans over hyping him. He's a good fighter with a lot of potential to make some noise in the UFC.

 

[Mikeyz]

Who is over hyping him? His fan boys? There is your problem, having an issue with his rabid fans over hyping him. He's a good fighter with a lot of potential to make some noise in the UFC.

Well, fanboys is a bad name because IMO it's an insult to actual fan boys. They deserve a name for themselves

When they started calling him the "Black Fedor" that was completely mind boggling

 

[Substance Abuse]

Well, fanboys is a bad name because IMO it's an insult to actual fan boys. They deserve a name for themselves

When they started calling him the "Black Fedor" that was completely mind boggling

You don't think there was some humor and levity involved in that; it revolving around another pudgy, short heavyweight who was having success against much bigger opposition?

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Mir is a wiley vet, which I think will be in his favor. Yes, if he tries to box, I think he'll lose. And yes, Cormier can take him down. But Mir has shown that he has it in him to act intelligently when under fire, a la the Nogueira sub. I think Cormier will outbox him and take him down/knock him down for some GnP. From there, I think Frank will be in a good position to sub him off his back.

Far fetched? Perhaps. But I can't get with the people here that think Mir is some journeyman who's going to get "destroyed" or "embarrassed" by some guy whose two wins of note were over Bigfoot and a less-than-prime Barnett.

 

[Dart Feld]

A bit early to say Cormier has good sub defense imo.

It looked fine against Barnett, I will say.

 

[Lucifer Alpha]

When they started calling him the "Black Fedor" that was completely mind boggling

I agree. Fedor lost to Bigfoot.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Mir is a wiley vet, which I think will be in his favor. Yes, if he tries to box, I think he'll lose. And yes, Cormier can take him down. But Mir has shown that he has it in him to act intelligently when under fire, a la the Nogueira sub. I think Cormier will outbox him and take him down/knock him down for some GnP. From there, I think Frank will be in a good position to sub him off his back.

Far fetched? Perhaps. But I can't get with the people here that think Mir is some journeyman who's going to get "destroyed" or "embarrassed" by some guy whose two wins of note were over Bigfoot and a less-than-prime Barnett.

Quite the contrary from my perspective. When Mir is pressured, he wilts, freezes up and doesn't attempt to remove himself from those situations, instead hoping his opposition makes a mistake so he can capitalize on it rather than get out of that situation or create some separation.

It happened against Carwin when he was pushed against the cage. He froze up and then got toasted. It happened against Lesnar, where he just sat there on his back, got controlled and pulverized. He even showed his lack of headiness in the second round by throwing a flying knee against the cage. Nog in their second fight had him backed up against the cage and rocked, nearly finishing the fight until ref intervention. I fully expect Mir to reenact those moments in this fight as Cormier pushes him around the cage, utilizes superior hand speed and wrestling and pummels Mir.

 

[ScarletnGray 33]

I can understand if you are a die-hard Mir fan and have faith in your guy and say "Mir by sub" all the time. I'm not talking to you guys, and to be frank, your numbers are way less than the "hype train getting derailed" guys.

I can understand intelligent debate. Questioning how DC deals with a southpaw. Or questioning his overconfidence on the ground which may set up some risks. Needless to say, a very small minority here on Sherdog.

But I'm seeing a different beast altogether than either of those two. Yes, I'm looking at you "hasn't faced anyone in the UFC yet" people. Did you predict Mir to sub JDS? No? Ok, then what makes you think Olympian Cormier has worse TDD than JDS? I don't underestimate Mir's ability to get a sub any way he can (he make a good effort to get JDS, realizing he couldn't blast him away with traditional TDs) but I don't think Cormier will be that reckless. Short of that, no way in hell is Mir taking him down.

Basically I see this fight as the last hurrah of the "hasn't faced anyone in the UFC yet" crowd. Enjoy it while you can gamblers. Because after this you won't have these guys pushing the lines in your favor.

"Werdum easily ranked in the top 5? Nelson not ranked at all? Doesn't matter... Nelson by KO, he was on TUF."

"Bigfoot ranked? Browne not at all? Doesn't matter... I saw a UFC show talking about Browne."

"Top 5 Overeem one of the hardest hitters and top 5 Brock one of the worst at taking punches? Doesn't matter... Brock by freak athlete, unstoppable TDs, lunchboxes for fists, Harley Davidson the only motorcycle, corn to the core, any other buzzlines that are indicative of the fact I can't come up with my own thoughts."

Now we have top 5 Cormier with a nightmare style (Olympic wrestler with good sub defense, quick speed and power in both hands) against ranked Mir. But yet again... "Mir by sub, DC hasn't fought in the UFC yet." I'm sure gamblers everywhere will miss you guys and your logic. No more SF means no more habitually underrating top 5 guys against guys that win by virtue of having a UFC fighter profile before the fight was announced. It'll be my pleasure to watch you guys scramble to pretend you are Cormier fans after this hype train wins and Dana says you should be praising him and you all fall in line and say you never had doubts.

"Jon Jones, a freak athlete with an amazing wrestling background and dangerous striking, vs an old washed up guy that is .500 in the UFC? Doesn't matter, Shogun fought in PRIDE!"

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Quite the contrary from my perspective. When Mir is pressured, he wilts, freezes up and doesn't attempt to remove himself from those situations, instead hoping his opposition makes a mistake so he can capitalize on it rather than get out of that situation or create some separation.

It happened against Carwin when he was pushed against the cage. He froze up and then got toasted. It happened against Lesnar, where he just sat there on his back, got controlled and pulverized. He even showed his lack of headiness in the second round by throwing a flying knee against the cage. Nog in their second fight had him backed up against the cage and rocked, nearly finishing the fight until ref intervention. I fully expect Mir to reenact those moments in this fight as Cormier pushes him around the cage, utilizes superior hand speed and wrestling and pummels Mir.

I'll agree that more often than not he folds, but I only said that he has it in him. He does have at least some encouraging signs of switching to an intelligent offense when under fire, even if they are rarer than the contrary.

We'll see how it plays out. I'm very hyped for this fight, which sucks because it's so far away. Maybe Mir will be Cormier's Gonzaga.