Question about the Kimura trap/control?

[GKY]

I recently watched this video about the kimura control from Lachlan Guiles.



I used to play with this grip at blue belt but I couldn't figure out how to prevent people from turning into me. I understand that he's extending the arm that grabs his own wrist to lengthen his partners elbow upwards, but what's he doing with the one grabbing his partners wrist.

I can't figure out the directionality of force/pressure. Is he pinning it to his partners chest? Is he turning it towards his partners hips? Is he sucking it in towards his own chest? Is he bringing it up towards his partners head?

I'd really like to know because the Kimura grip fits really well into my game but my partner's simply bringing their elbow to the floor has been the bane of my existence.

Any general information about Kimura traps would also be appreciated.

 

[vcmmafan]

Watch Vagner Rocha's 50/50 of the Arms and Ryan Hall's Open Elbow and you will have very few questions about the Kimura ever again.

 

[Deleted member 405583]

@kpoz12 please help this man

 

[DatCutman]

Watch Vagner Rocha's 50/50 of the Arms and Ryan Hall's Open Elbow and you will have very few questions about the Kimura ever again.

Is 50/50 of the arms that good? I personally couldn't get Ryan Hall's control to work for me; I don't know if it's T-Rex arm syndrome or what, it just wasn't clicking. Sadly the pro wrassler in me desperately wants to get better at Kimuras.

 

[kpoz12]

I recently watched this video about the kimura control from Lachlan Guiles...but what's he doing with the one grabbing his partners wrist?

I can't figure out the directionality of force/pressure. Is he pinning it to his partners chest? Is he turning it towards his partners hips? Is he sucking it in towards his own chest? Is he bringing it up towards his partners head?

He's creating a PUSH-PULL mechanism to lock the arm in place here:

He's pulling the elbow and shoulder up towards him with his elbow, and then pushing the wrist down, away, and into the guys' chest/body.
If either aspect is missing, then yeah, the opponent can pull his elbow down to the mat.

Think of the mechanics of the finishing the armbar from side control/mount: your legs should be actively pushing his shoulder and head further away from his body, while your hands are simultaneously pulling his arm closer to you (and thus further out from his body).
IF you only pulled his arm, he could use the rest of his body to roll/stack into you; IF you only pushed his shoulders and head away, he could just pull his arm down (and you'd actually be helping him to do so).

The same thing with standard Ashi Garami: your foot on his hip pushes his hips and upper body further away from you, while you simultaneously pull his leg closer towards you; if you were to only pull his leg, his could just sit forward on you, and if you only pushes his hips away, he could just buttscoot straight back outta there (and again you'd actually be making this easier for him to do)

 

[mataleaos]

I can't figure out the directionality of force/pressure. Is he pinning it to his partners chest? Is he turning it towards his partners hips? Is he sucking it in towards his own chest? Is he bringing it up towards his partners head?

I'd really like to know because the Kimura grip fits really well into my game but my partner's simply bringing their elbow to the floor has been the bane of my existence.

Any general information about Kimura traps would also be appreciated.

Like others, I advise Ryan Hall's 'Open Elbow' series or Vagner Rocha's '50/50 of the Arms' series.

As far as directionality of force/pressure, you want internal rotation of the shoulder. So if they're pulled up onto their side, you want their hand moving into their chest, and their elbow flared out both up and away from their body.

There are times where it's okay to pull them trapped arm close to your chest, because your chest can back-stop their elbow which makes it more difficult to get to the floor. However, extending your arms is usually going to do a better job of controlling their arm and preventing their elbow getting to the floor. A lot of people get the kimura grip and pull it to their chest and they lose it. Extending your arms causes more flare in their elbow, and more rotation of their shoulder.

A really good kimura control from the top should have the other person basically stuck in place. The upper corner of their body shoulder either be stuck, or it should be uncomfortable if they try to turn away or turn in.

I'll try to find some other good videos to post today. The kimura control is a great resource. Especially if you also train without the gi. Most submissions without the gi that aren't rear naked chokes or leg locks usually come from the front headlock position or the kimura position. From the kimura position you can get to half a dozen subs and other positions very easily without having to let go of the grip. And without the extra friction and grips of the gi, having good kimura control is arguably a necessity to not suck at no-gi.