Question about high end grapplers

[Bruce Calavera]

When looking at high end grapplers like Jacare, Roger, Galvao, Maia, etc they're said to be at a different level. How much bettee are these grapplers than your standard black belt? For instance does it look like a black vs white/blue?

 

[blink_man182]

I wouldn't saw black vs white. But there is certainly a different level. But even those guys you stated for instance have their reasons for being so good. Examples Jacare is good technician and an amazing natural athlete. Then you got Demian who is a master technician of the basic, and he sticks to them and is successful at it.

 

[Thaiboxer10000]

Than your standard blk belt?? Yes, they will tap your average blk at will. They are world class competitors, they train & compete at the highest level successfully, it's like putting an NFL player onto a high school team, not even close.

That said, its all relative, your low end blk belt is pretty damn good compared to 99.99999% of the population.

 

[RJ Green]

you know how you've got D1 players that, for whatever reason, don't go pro?

same thing.

 

[Oliver Geddes]

Having trained with Roger and seen him train, I've seen him make new black belts look like a good purple against a pretty new white.

Judge that how you will.

Take care,

Stalks

 

[BJJ Beginner]

Athleticism is one of the biggest differences, as it is with any sport. Hard work and dedication will eventually earn most people a black belt, given enough time. To compete on the highest level, you need hard work, dedication, AND a lot of natural athletic ability. And as with most sports, if you have enough natural ability you don't even really need hard work to at least be competitive.

 

[bjj_ninja]

Athleticism is one of the biggest differences, as it is with any sport. Hard work and dedication will eventually earn most people a black belt, given enough time. To compete on the highest level, you need hard work, dedication, AND a lot of natural athletic ability. And as with most sports, if you have enough natural ability you don't even really need hard work to at least be competitive.

I have to agree and disagree with this. I do think that natural talent helps in the beginning but as time goes on it will only take you so far. They might have picked things up faster and progressed through the lower ranks faster but I don't think that has much to do once you get to a world class level. In my opinion those guys that were mentioned are people who have managed to bring it all together, the technique-strength-cardio-discipline and mental aspects. I am sure there are more than that but it is all I can come up with right now. Not to mention that competing is what these guys do. Some blk belts just aren't competitive and train more for the knowledge bjj brings.

 

[GodsDevil]

does it look like a black vs white/blue?

YES

 

[BJJ Beginner]

I do think that natural talent helps in the beginning but as time goes on it will only take you so far. They might have picked things up faster and progressed through the lower ranks faster but I don't think that has much to do once you get to a world class level.

Don't get me wrong: natural athletic ability alone won't make you the best in the world. But it will get you to where you can at least be competitive at the highest level of the sport, and without it you can't reach that level no matter how hard you work. It's just like any other sport in that regard - everybody at the pro level is a great athlete; the best are the ones who combine that athleticism with hard work and quality training.

 

[Bruce Calavera]

YES

That was actually the exact video that made me ask the question. That breakdancing shove on his turtle was just....what's a word for degrading but awesome at the same time? BJJ porn?

 

[PedroCassidinho]

YES

That was actually mad dissrespectfull. I felt bad for that guy there.

 

[PhillyD45]

I think a better comparison would be Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant or LeBron James to the rest of the NBA. They are all fantastic players in the NBA but these guys surpassed even the highest level players considerably.
Same goes for any sport. There are guys that add hard work, heart and competitiveness to natural ability. Many people have one of those attributes but few have them all.

 

[dirtypablo]

That was actually mad dissrespectfull. I felt bad for that guy there.

Seriously. Would have loved to see him slip and the other guy catch him with something.

 

[Manny]

Don't get me wrong: natural athletic ability alone won't make you the best in the world. But it will get you to where you can at least be competitive at the highest level of the sport, and without it you can't reach that level no matter how hard you work. It's just like any other sport in that regard - everybody at the pro level is a great athlete; the best are the ones who combine that athleticism with hard work and quality training.

I hate when people talk about natural athletic ability. Not having the natural ability somone else has just means you have to work harder than them, not that you're destined to fail and they are and will always be your superior. Besides, grappling like most human conflict is far more mental than physical anyway.

 

[masterfighter]

That was actually mad dissrespectfull. I felt bad for that guy there.

I thought that too the first time i saw it. Apparently theres a backstory though, Galvao's opponent tried an illegal move (knee reap?) several times at the start of the match.

 

[BJJ Beginner]

I hate when people talk about natural athletic ability. Not having the natural ability somone else has just means you have to work harder than them, not that you're destined to fail and they are and will always be your superior. Besides, grappling like most human conflict is far more mental than physical anyway.

Sorry, but that's just naive. For every professional athlete you see there are thousands and thousands of people who worked their asses off and just didn't have the ability to perform at that level no matter what they did. Hard work is a great thing, and will make you the best you can be, but for the vast majority of people the best they can be simply isn't good enough to compete at the highest level of their chosen sport.

And if the mental side of grappling was far more important than the physical side as you claim, we would see a bunch of frail geeky types dominating the Mundials and "Hawking by armbar" would be the running joke on this forum.

 

[kidrobot]

Sorry, but that's just naive. For every professional athlete you see there are thousands and thousands of people who worked their asses off and just didn't have the ability to perform at that level no matter what they did. Hard work is a great thing, and will make you the best you can be, but for the vast majority of people the best they can be simply isn't good enough to compete at the highest level of their chosen sport.

And if the mental side of grappling was far more important than the physical side as you claim, we would see a bunch of frail geeky types dominating the Mundials and "Hawking by armbar" would be the running joke on this forum.

I agree with you, Manny is right and wrong but mainly wrong. Your highest level competitors in every sport were probably naturally exceptionally at that sport. Of course hard work helps but hard work vs talent, talent will win 9 times out of 10. But if it is hard work +talent vs talent of course hard work + talent will win.

I was pretty expectational at wrestling even when I first started, but I knew kids that wrestled many years more than me and worked way harder than me but still couldn't beat me. Natural ability, talent, and ability to learn is probably the biggest thing in making someone an exceptional athlete. Also, a coach to hone the skills correctly.