Question about gi vs. no-gi

[Shemhazai]

marcelo uses gi grips. gi grips are stronger than no gi. he uses them in the mundials. i am not sure if he uses them in gym just rolling.

gi grips really are better and if you are rolling in a gi and not using them you are kind of stupid.

first video i found on youtube. i thought i might have to watch a few mins of the match but i only had to watch a few seconds. or do pistol grips on sleeves not count? within the first minute > sleeve grip, collar grip, back to sleeve grip, to belt grip. note: i am saying gi grips for control.

Marcelo mostly uses the pistol grip for the 2 on 1, the occasional collar or pants grip when passing (though he mostly either smash-passes or passes via half guard), and a couple of gi chokes, mostly the bow & arrow (and often hits the RNC in the gi still). I never said he didn't use gi grips, but very few of his moves utilize them.

As for gi grips being stronger than no gi grips, this is true. However, intelligent grip fighting doesn't involve my opponent and I having the same grips simultaneously, in which case he would win due to grabbing cloth. Grip fighting means that I block or break my opponent's grips, take my own grips (2 on 1, underhook, head control, leg drag etc.) and put him in a mechanically shitty position. When I win the grip fight, control the inside space and positionally dominate my opponent, grabbing my gi will not allow him to negate my position just because I'm not grabbing his.

I just use a game comprised of no gi techniques that also work in the gi. To say that I'm stupid for not gripping the gi, well ... that's like saying anyone who doesn't use a particular type of game is limiting himself. Everybody specializes in some way. And if my approach isn't ideal for winning Mundials, well - I'm not making a run for the gold any time soon. I prefer techniques that work with and without the gi for a number of reasons, one being that I like no gi, another being that I work as a bouncer and care about universality for self defense purposes. Lastly, I've been playing guitar for 14 years and would like to continue doing so at a high level of proficiency for as long as I can, so not grabbing the gi saves my fingers a lot of wear and tear. If this hurts anybody's macho sensibilities, I feel sorry for them.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Jeff Glover almost never trains in the gi anymore because gi training fucked up his fingers. You feel like going to his school and telling him to change his tampon? If you do, let me know how that works out.

He probably has some problems with his fingers because of all the years he has done gi training, do you actually think jeff is going to tell you, bra dont train gi, is going to fuck your fingers up!...

 

[Im so Moldy]

A lot of people are saying that gi teaches you how to control someone who has clothes on and no gi teaches you how to control someone without clothes/a shirt. Keep in mind that no gi techniques work regardless of what you're wearing, and gi-reliant techniques only work with a certain type of clothing. And don't forget that gis are tear resistant, when a lot of normal clothes will tear easily if pulled. I say train both; learning how to manipulate clothes and especially how to react when someone is grabbing your clothes is useful. However for the reasons above I would make no gi the primary focus IMO. It also seems to me that no gi techniques are generally less complex and more in touch with reality, as opposed to things like double spider inverted berimbolo De La Hoya guard.

 

[pheonix5]

double spider inverted berimbolo De La Hoya guard.

Yeah,I use that one alot. Totally screws with my opponents head. The other one I like is the double De La Hoya inverted berimbolo spider butterfly guard with the G.I. Joe Kung Fu grip.

 

[Nomad Nemesis**]

Marcelo mostly uses the pistol grip for the 2 on 1, the occasional collar or pants grip when passing (though he mostly either smash-passes or passes via half guard), and a couple of gi chokes, mostly the bow & arrow (and often hits the RNC in the gi still). I never said he didn't use gi grips, but very few of his moves utilize them.

As for gi grips being stronger than no gi grips, this is true. However, intelligent grip fighting doesn't involve my opponent and I having the same grips simultaneously, in which case he would win due to grabbing cloth. Grip fighting means that I block or break my opponent's grips, take my own grips (2 on 1, underhook, head control, leg drag etc.) and put him in a mechanically shitty position. When I win the grip fight, control the inside space and positionally dominate my opponent, grabbing my gi will not allow him to negate my position just because I'm not grabbing his.

I just use a game comprised of no gi techniques that also work in the gi. To say that I'm stupid for not gripping the gi, well ... that's like saying anyone who doesn't use a particular type of game is limiting himself. Everybody specializes in some way. And if my approach isn't ideal for winning Mundials, well - I'm not making a run for the gold any time soon. I prefer techniques that work with and without the gi for a number of reasons, one being that I like no gi, another being that I work as a bouncer and care about universality for self defense purposes. Lastly, I've been playing guitar for 14 years and would like to continue doing so at a high level of proficiency for as long as I can, so not grabbing the gi saves my fingers a lot of wear and tear. If this hurts anybody's macho sensibilities, I feel sorry for them.

ah, i just meant straight up gi comps that gi grips are best.

i did not account for using your fingers for other things.

i just think it would be stupid for me if i didn't use techniques that i knew were better.

all the guys medaling in mundials are using all kinds of gi grips.

so, the only person stupid here is me. some things never change

 

[xMTDx]

For self defence stuff i would choose no gi. Much better to control using clinch work than rely on the strength of what they happen to be wearing. I also live in a hot climate which obviously influences this

 

[p4p1]

Yeah, I just use the same grips/controls that I would use in no gi. Naturally, some positions don't translate very well, so I don't play a lot of spider guard, for instance. (Although I do use a Marcelo Garcia style 2 on 1 and go foot-in-biceps on the other arm, setting up triangles much like Beneil Dariush.)



I personally don't, but I feel I have pretty effective no gi alternatives in most of the common collar choke positions.

I really think that doing this makes your no-gi game a lot better TBH

 

[Shemhazai]

He probably has some problems with his fingers because of all the years he has done gi training, do you actually think jeff is going to tell you, bra dont train gi, is going to fuck your fingers up!...

Is that what you think I'm saying in this thread? I'm not saying that people shouldn't grab the gi, I'm saying that if someone chooses not to grab the gi, either because they want to save their fingers, or focus on MMA or whatever, then they can totally build an effective game of no gi moves in the gi. And Jeff Glover probably wouldn't call them pussies for it, especially if they needed to take care of their fingers for reasons other than BJJ, because Jeff Glover doesn't strike me as an asshole.

I don't expect other people to copy my approach (unless their priorities are the exact same as mine), in fact, I expect people who train at high level gyms to have highly personalized styles anyway, with each person specializing in a different niche without anybody trying to do it all. This is what pissed me off about KarateFist's comment that if you don't grab the gi, you're wasting your training partner's time. That's like saying that since I don't use toe holds, I'm doing my training partner a disservice since I don't make him work on his toe hold defense. Well ... he's just gonna have to work on that with a toe hold guy!

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Is that what you think I'm saying in this thread? I'm not saying that people shouldn't grab the gi, I'm saying that if someone chooses not to grab the gi, either because they want to save their fingers, or focus on MMA or whatever, then they can totally build an effective game of no gi moves in the gi. And Jeff Glover probably wouldn't call them pussies for it, especially if they needed to take care of their fingers for reasons other than BJJ, because Jeff Glover doesn't strike me as an asshole.

I don't expect other people to copy my approach (unless their priorities are the exact same as mine), in fact, I expect people who train at high level gyms to have highly personalized styles anyway, with each person specializing in a different niche without anybody trying to do it all. This is what pissed me off about KarateFist's comment that if you don't grab the gi, you're wasting your training partner's time. That's like saying that since I don't use toe holds, I'm doing my training partner a disservice since I don't make him work on his toe hold defense. Well ... he's just gonna have to work on that with a toe hold guy!

dude you are a guitar player (just read on your last post above) so yeah I think you get a pass on the gi fucking your knuckles/fingers/etc up... but giving advice to a noob on why not to train gi because it will fuck your fingers up its a very pussy advice, at least on the grappling forum, if we were in a guitar forum and this question came up, then it was totally valid advice.... On building an effective game gi or no gi, I didnt even went there, didnt even comment on the subject....

 

[Calibur]

Someone actually takes KarateFist seriously?

 

[Shemhazai]

Someone actually takes KarateFist seriously?

Maybe not, but I've seen his point (that not using technique X is detrimental to your training partners) made by others before. I guess these people train in gyms where everybody uses the same game, or in a garage with one other guy.

 

[Deltafarce]

gi is also good for self defense. people wear shirts/jackets and pants.

I always here ppl say that but in no gi you can't grab clothing which just seems unrealistic to me. There is no harm in learning both though. I learned a lot when I cross trained

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Helio should be revolving in his grave by now, you are not training gi because it brutalizes your hands? are you nails getting messed up because of the gi training my lady???? WTF! if you care about that, then may be you should change your tampoon, or may be, bjj isnt for you, you may wanna try something like ballet, your "knuckles" will be just fine there...

Imagine you go to Renzos school and ask him if you can just roll no gi because gi training brutalizes your hand...

Should I remove the dildo from my butt as well ?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Should I remove the dildo from my butt as well ?

you could, playing butterfly guard will be more comfortable...or not lol..

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Sorry I'm a bit of a noob. Not sure if this is the right section or not either. What are the advantages of training no-gi vs. gi? I really want to get into gi but I can't make the earlier class at my gym so I have to go to no-gi classes. Would it be inappropriate to wear a gi during this class? Also, in general what are the advantages of no-gi? I feel as though it just makes more sense to train gi, but again that's an uneducated opinion. Thanks in advance for any info

No, you should not wear a gi to a NO-gi class.

No-gi is traditionally done naked, although in some areas of Brazil, they make it more challenging by dousing practitioners in baby oil. Some people think that's cheating, because when oil and sweat mix, it becomes incredibly slippery and wet, and it is really hard to berimbolo.

 

[KarateFist]

Jeff Glover almost never trains in the gi anymore because gi training fucked up his fingers. You feel like going to his school and telling him to change his tampon? If you do, let me know how that works out.

lol jeff glover still trains gi on a regular basis

 

[KarateFist]

Someone actually takes KarateFist seriously?

almost as surprising as anyone taking you seriously despite acting like you're some authority on BJJ on this forum lol

 

[Shemhazai]

lol jeff glover still trains gi on a regular basis

Maybe I don't recall the quote correctly, but I believe he did say he stopped using gi grips as much because of his fingers.

 

[Calibur]

almost as surprising as anyone taking you seriously despite acting like you're some authority on BJJ on this forum lol

You obviously think I am.

 

[paul_db]

Gi brutalizes your hands. I like no-gi because my knuckles don't hurt like hell after class.

No-Gi is better for defending against Guido's because they take their shirts off. You can't pull off a cheap collar choke on a shirtless Guido.

point^

Either way the transition is fairly difficult (it was for me) if you don't train both.

Being used to submission-wrestling, i was able to defend my joints, but i still get choked out with the lapelle.