Quality of instruction

[shincheckin]

Something i think about sometimes when i watch fights, its almost more about the quality of instruction and coaching the guy has received. Whos the winner? The guy who got better coaching. Not necesarily the better fighter.

 

[StopDucking]

Instructions are certainly useful or fighters wouldn't even bother having cornermen to begin with. However, I think most of the outcome is already decided before the fight even starts. The thousands of hours in the gym and on the road, the drilling, sparring, dieting and gameplanning parts as well as the natural talent cannot be overridden by just a few people screaming on ringside.

 

[shincheckin]

Instructions are certainly useful or fighters wouldn't even bother having cornermen to begin with. However, I think most of the outcome is already decided before the fight even starts. The thousands of hours in the gym and on the road, the drilling, sparring, dieting and gameplanning parts as well as the natural talent cannot be overridden by just a few people screaming on ringside.

Theres more to it for sure. Talent etc. I was referring more to the coaching at the gym rather then ringside. If you want to be top level you need top level coaching. Analogy, training at local ufc gym vs thai camp. For myself i improved so much when i got good coaching. Gil Martinez was the best boxing coach i ever got to work with. I learned so much in 1 day. I cant imagine how much i could have improved if i got to work with him every day

 

[panamaican]

I agree with the OP but doesn't better coaching create the better fighter?

 

[shincheckin]

I agree with the OP but doesn't better coaching create the better fighter?

Exactly my point. all things being equail, Its almost like it comes down to who had access to better coaching. Not the better fighter. Id see this alot in mt. Ppl fighting that shouldnt. Its like not even better coaching just proper coaching.

Same thing goes for myself, my athletic skills and abilities etc. never changed. I only really improved when I got the almost impossible to find proper MT coaching in the US. I couldnt imagine how much better I could have improved if my local gym down the street was a thai camp, or badcompany gym, etc. rather then some UFC gym type kickboxercise. I had alot of wasted years searching for the needle in a haystack.

When I quit coaching, the replacement coach sent a guy to go fight, that I never would have sent to fight. He fought a friends of mine fighter and got absolutely smashed. Of course he did, cause he wasnt ready and shouldnt be fighting. Which means the new coach either A) didnt care B) didnt know or C) all of the above.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

My hierarchy:
1) Level of training/sparring partners
2) Level of coaching/classes/drilling
3) Extra work (S&C etc)

 

[shincheckin]

My hierarchy:
1) Level of training/sparring partners
2) Level of coaching/classes/drilling
3) Extra work (S&C etc)

Tru dat. Number 1 refers back to our ptevious talk of getting alot acconplished at home with a few friends....but you have to get to a certain level to be able to do so first. Otherwise its the blind leading the blind

 

[SandisLL]

Level of sparring partners might play two or three edged sword:
too low.
too high for lad but partner is nice and lad is learning a lot.
too high for lad and partner isn't so helpful plus if there also size difference, sometimes this might heavily demotivate.
50/50 matchup in sparring too does happens.

 

[Stuart0502]

I think if you have an overall head coach who gives you appropriate level sparring and selectively matches you with incremental opposition from the amateur to the pro ranks then that can make a massive difference.

There are coaches like that in boxing.

They are few and far between in MMA.

I read a Damien Trainor blog the other day where he said there is a growing movement of people in the UK who think you should either debut with full Thai rules or jump from amateur to FTR. I thought it sounded retarded.

 

[DoctorTaco]

I think if you have an overall head coach who gives you appropriate level sparring and selectively matches you with incremental opposition from the amateur to the pro ranks then that can make a massive difference.

There are coaches like that in boxing.

They are few and far between in MMA.

I read a Damien Trainor blog the other day where he said there is a growing movement of people in the UK who think you should either debut with full Thai rules or jump from amateur to FTR. I thought it sounded retarded.

with respect to Damien, I think it’s push back to what the old guard sees as the “watering down” of Muay Thai through increased rules for amateurs. A class, B class, C class all having different weapons to use, pads when they compete, PKBs and their “no going for the knock out” rule, and even point style Muay Thai.

I don’t agree with trainor either but understand where he and the other old heads are coming from.

 

[Stuart0502]

with respect to Damien, I think it’s push back to what the old guard sees as the “watering down” of Muay Thai through increased rules for amateurs. A class, B class, C class all having different weapons to use, pads when they compete, PKBs and their “no going for the knock out” rule, and even point style Muay Thai.

I don’t agree with trainor either but understand where he and the other old heads are coming from.

https://www.damientrainor.com/should-you-fight-full-thai-rules-from-the-start

This is the article I was talking about.

https://www.damientrainor.com/should-you-fight-full-thai-rules-from-the-start

Trainor is actually advocating for a N-C-B class rules base.

It's one thing if you have two first timers who have been training for six months doing FTR.

It's another thing if you have been training for six months and you go in FTR against someone who has been training for 3 years and has progressed through N-C-B-A class rules. That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

 

[DoctorTaco]

https://www.damientrainor.com/should-you-fight-full-thai-rules-from-the-start

This is the article I was talking about.

https://www.damientrainor.com/should-you-fight-full-thai-rules-from-the-start

Trainor is actually advocating for a N-C-B class rules base.

It's one thing if you have two first timers who have been training for six months doing FTR.

It's another thing if you have been training for six months and you go in FTR against someone who has been training for 3 years and has progressed through N-C-B-A class rules. That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

great read. I agree with him

 

[SandisLL]

I think if you have an overall head coach who gives you appropriate level sparring and selectively matches you with incremental opposition from the amateur to the pro ranks then that can make a massive difference.

There are coaches like that in boxing.

___________________
Yeah.
Boxing and wrestling, judo and sambo had established during long decades know how how to made sparrings and pair lads.

It is more doable in large country with dense population. Large talent pool and in countries with high popularity for this combat sport is possible to get sparring for free, while in some other place it will require to travel or pay some lad to travel etc. to get the same level sparring.
______
If I remember some best boxers I had sparred with, these 2 lads were not cocky but It wasn't pleasure.
One was: endless clinches in long rows and he was better than I plus considerably better than I owerall in all areas, plus damn more experienced.
Another: he was a bit too small for me, while skills wise, he was damn better than I, If he was larger, I might get more from this.
While no one was down there, I didn't felt any pleasure or too much learning.
Also once I had refused offer to spar with with one good guy cos I was not in shape then. Damn, I really regret this stupidity.

 

[shincheckin]

I think the way its ran by ikf is good. Padded muay thai until x amount of fights.

Then no pads, but still elbow pads.

Elbow pads come off when pro.