Putin makes Holocaust denial a criminal offence punishable by up to five years in jail.

[Islam Imamate]

Huh, I actually am a bit surprised. Not that Putin would ban a type of speech, that's believable, but banning Holocaust denial? He's a populist authoritarian and I've had the impression antisemitism is not that uncommon in Russia and Eastern Europe compared to Western Europe(Muslims excluded).

 

[Quipling]

What are your views on Hitler and the Nazis? Do you believe the holocaust happened?

Here are Viva's thoughts:

Those questions have complex answers.

The perpetuated myth of death camps is usually why people believe the Nazi's were morally abhorrent. However these people know very little of why these camps were constructed or why European Jews were held in them. Essentially they were a middle ground to generate free war-time labor until the people were moved out of Germany. Hitler actually had plans to move these people towards Israel with their finances completely intact, but WW2 put an end to that. Even during WW2 these people were essentially exploited in these camps for free labor. Now, if you're a country that has recently gained economic independence much like 1930's Germany, why would you purposefully kill the people playing a part in helping the war effort?

There are aspects of the Nazis that I admire but also aspects that I disagree with. It isn't as cut and dry as "good or evil".

Very rarely is that ever the case, frankly.

Sorry if that wasn't super thorough, I'm on my phone at the moment but will elaborate when I'm back home.

 

[nac386]

I have no clue why he would do this. It is weird though how many Nazis are in Russia considering what Nazis did to Russians. Well I guess Americans and other countries were enemies too and we have nazis but the Nazis really went to town on Russia. Maybe he sees nazis as a threat to power and russian unity. Or maybe I am overthinking it.

Modern Neo-Nazis are social outcasts who are just excited to finally feel like they are a part of something.

 

[The Russian]

The Red Cross' number is between 250,000-300,000.

The World Almanac's population of European Jews compared from 1933-1945 support the Red Cross' findings.

That’s freaking low. I remember the teacher saying the 6 millions figure included non Jews but wow that’s low.

 

[Rematch]

Well it could explain what he meant by these statements:

His agenda, whatever it may be, should have no effect on his statement being reasonable, which it is.

 

[Gazwald]

How many actually died? In school I was told the 6m nomber

Around 3 million, which has gradually risen to 7 million. It grows by 10k every time someone criticizes the disgusting actions of the American/Jewish military outpost called Israel.

 

[nac386]

His agenda, whatever it may be, should have no effect on his statement being reasonable, which it is.

No, usually "you know what I'm implying" needs further clarification.

It sounds like he's now said only 250,000 people were killed, is that still reasonable?

 

[Viva]

That’s freaking low. I remember the teacher saying the 6 millions figure included non Jews but wow that’s low.

I'm not sure where the 6 million number came from, but it's been widely questioned as accurate by many. Given the typical methods of execution during that time period and the relatively short span of WW2 it's very hard to believe that number even factoring in the sickness and starvation that occurred after Germany was dismantled towards the end of the war.

 

[Trotsky]

I have always been a free speech advocate, especially regarding political speech. I don't see a need for these laws. I think they are stupid. I mean, if someone wants to claim the Holocaust never happened, what's the big deal? You can just tell them they are ridiculous and move on.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-denial-of-nazi-crimes-idUSBREA440IV20140505

Has Putin done the right thing? Should we have laws like this in America?

Granted, I haven't read about the issue beyond this article, but this seems incredibly authoritarian and inexcusable. If you're to believe the reports, he doing this to curb liberal criticism of the USSR's unsavory antics during WWII, not that it would be excusable even under more honorable justification.

 

[Bargey]

This is an extremely shady move and I think it’s probably about setting up other anti-free speech policies that are closer to Putin’s heart.

 

[Viva]

No, usually "you know what I'm implying" needs further clarification.

It sounds like he's now said only 250,000 people were killed, is that still reasonable?

Firstly I said died, not "were killed".

Secondly, these numbers come from the Red Cross, not some personal conjecture.

Third, there aren't documents that prove the 6 million figure or even of orders of mass execution. You mean to tell me the Germans, who are very organized and methodical, operated these camps without any sort of documentation as to what was going on? Gimme a break.

 

[Exception]

Historical events should be free to discuss and analyze to further discover the truth, rather than narrative driven misinterpretations. Making discussing such things illegal makes no sense whatsoever from any reasonable perspective, unless they're hiding something.

I see your point. I just don't expect that level of discourse from a country that has, essentially, gone their-version of anti-1st-amendment. I guess that's pessimistic.

 

[Exception]

This is an extremely shady move and I think it’s probably about setting up other anti-free speech policies that are closer to Putin’s heart.

That seems likely I suppose.

 

[Rematch]

No, usually "you know what I'm implying" needs further clarification.

It sounds like he's now said only 250,000 people were killed, is that still reasonable?

If that's what the Red Cross says, yes.

 

[nac386]

Firstly I said died, not "were killed".

Secondly, these numbers come from the Red Cross, not some personal conjecture.

Third, there aren't documents that prove the 6 million figure or even of orders of mass execution. You mean to tell me the Germans, who are very organized and methodical, operated these camps without any sort of documentation as to what was going on? Gimme a break.

So how did the 250k people die?

And why was the death of 250k people changed to the murder of 6 million?

 

[InternetHero]

This slope is slipperier than a Six Flag's slide in the summertime.

 

[nac386]

If that's what the Red Cross says, yes.

Lol, It's not. Come on man. The Red Cross calls what Viva just said propaganda.

In the 1978 official bulletin, entitled "False Propaganda", the ICRC denounced Holocaust denial and confirmed that the agency "Never published—or even compiled—statistics of this kind which are being falsely attributed to it" and stated that its mission was "to help war victims, not to count them",[85][86][87] and questioned how they would have even been able to obtain such statistics had they wanted to, given that they were "only able to enter only a few concentration camps...in the final days of the war"

 

[Viva]

So how did the 250k people die?

And why was the death of 250k people changed to the murder of 6 million?

In my opinion I think many does from starvation and disease. Germany had many of their supply routes destroyed by bombings so the few resources available at these camps were used for Germans. Of course some were also executed for various reasons, which adds to the number as well. But I believe the number of those executed pales in comparison to those who simply died from being sick or malnourished.

And that is a good question. Although that answer is largely speculative, so I can't quite say. I think the simple answer is influence, but there's more to it of course.

 

[Rematch]

Lol, It's not. Come on man. The Red Cross calls what Viva just said propaganda.

Hmmm...

 

[MicroBrew]

I have always been a free speech advocate, especially regarding political speech. I don't see a need for these laws. I think they are stupid. I mean, if someone wants to claim the Holocaust never happened, what's the big deal? You can just tell them they are ridiculous and move on.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-denial-of-nazi-crimes-idUSBREA440IV20140505

Has Putin done the right thing? Should we have laws like this in America?

Should we have such laws in America?
F#@K NO !

Hate speech laws = anti liberty / anti freedom and UnAmerican !

Free speech > any group's sensitivities.