Put To Sleep?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by GracieStudent, Jan 13, 2006.

  1. GracieStudent

    GracieStudent Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    hey has anyone been put to sleep or put anyone to sleep while training? maybe by accident or on purpose? and if so, what's the usual reaction of the class? are you scolded for going too far or is it looked at as the other guys fault for not tapping soon enough? just wondering?
     
  2. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,067
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have done both. We do it voluntarily to see what it is like, under supervision. Gene Lebell does it all the time.

    If the person being choked doesn't tap, it is their fault. The person choked can't be responsible for the other not tapping. Not much you can do about it.

    When you do it, put them on their side and leave them be. They may twitch or convulse, but it is normal. They will come to in a few seconds. At first, they will not know where they were, and many people have vivid dreams when choked out.
     
  3. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,790
    Likes Received:
    6,613
    i've seen a new guy get choked because obviously he didn't know he had to tap. don't know how that could've happened.

    b0b says you leave him, we raised his legs to get blood into his head sooner, they spillt some water on his face and slapped him a cupple of times. he was out for about 10 secs, maybe less. it was kinda scary.
     
  4. CelticDeath

    CelticDeath Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    I came close to doing it on accident. A yellow belt was showing me how to do a choke, and then he had me do it on him. Another guy was also helping to train me on the move and was busy talking me through the steps as I was doing it. So, I wasn't paying attention to the yellow belt and was looking at the other guy who was talking to me. The yellow belt tapped, and I didn't realize he had tapped. Then, he tapped again, and again I didn't realize it. Then, he tapped again, pretty impatiently. Finally, pretty embarrassed, I released the hold.
     
  5. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,067
    Likes Received:
    0
    Never heard of pulling the leg up.

    http://www.fightingarts.com/content01/judo_choke_resuscitate.shtml

    "If the person against whom you applied a choke becomes unconscious immediately release the victim and lay him or her flat so that blood may flow naturally back to the brain. Placing the victim on his or her side, with the head resting on the arm, will prevent vomit aspiration and facilitate breathing if necessary. "

    There are lots of techniques at the bottom of that article too.
     
  6. villasenor

    villasenor boom, *****!!

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,267
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    not pivoting my foot
    you just feel your body loosen up and then you close your eyes and then open them to ask where you are?
     
  7. fightme

    fightme Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    0
    I almost went out on a few occasions but I seen quite a few guys go out. One time in particular time a blue belt(about 200 lbs) was rolling really light with this white belt (about 160 lbs) who had only been training about a month. He was talking the white belt through a gi choke and how to escape it. The white belt tighten the choke way too hard(and fast) and slept the blue belt.

    I watched it go down and I kept thinking "O.k. now the blue belt will escape the choke" but when he started snoring me and another guy rushed the mat. The crazy thing is if we hadn't been watching(sitting out that round) it could have been real ugly because the white belt had no idea the blue belt was sleeping.

    Personally I think you have a responsiblity to your training partner to ask them if they are "Alright" when working a choke if they don't tap relatively quickly. He they say "Yeah" then continue the technique, if the say nothing that release the technique.

    If you have been training for any period of time you basically know when someone is in a potential submission. I try to anticipate the tap so that I can really the hold as soon as possible.

    Now you will get some guys who will occasionally say "I didn't tap" but to error on the side of caution.

    My .02.
     
  8. Cap'n

    Cap'n <img src="http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1955/

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    5,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    I was almost put to sleep once by a friend's triangle choke, he sunk it in very quickly and didn't let up, scary feeling.
     
  9. TapSD

    TapSD Killer Bee....1%

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    5
    My buddy did it at a bar to this asian kid..just walked up behind him and sunk in an RNC..the guy was flialing for about 3 seconds then went limp..was great and we all got tossed out on our asses
     
  10. CelticDeath

    CelticDeath Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Zheesh! I hope the Asian kid was askin' for it, at least. That's a pretty cruel thing to do, otherwise.
     
  11. JustSomeGuy

    JustSomeGuy Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    1,915
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    DFW
    They should come to in a couple of seconds on their own. But I always was taught to err on the side of caution and help them out. Lifting the legs is a good one as it forces the blood towards the brain, opening up the arteries that might be compressed. And doesn't involve moving them around too much since sometimes folks will come to still trying to struggle if it was during competition.

    I've seen the one used in Judo to sit them up and put your knee in their back to similate a breathing and moving motion, but I like the legs up method most. Yeah and the dreams are wild :)

    My personal fave time was when rolling with my old instructor who caught me in a cross choke from the mount. I saw it coming and thought if I bridged at the right time, I could keep him from sinking it. Apparently, not :) I heard myself snoring as I woke up in his guard with him smiling. I said, "I think you got me." and he laughed and said, "I think so too."
     
  12. GracieStudent

    GracieStudent Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    that's funny
     
  13. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,790
    Likes Received:
    6,613
    they do it alot in judo competition.

    you don't really pull, just grab by their ankles and lift the legs up, shaking them gently.
     
  14. tequilaman

    tequilaman Guest

    I have done it several times, more often to someone than done to me.

    First time I got someone good it was very funny, and a little scary:

    I was sparring with a strong white belt, in his guard, when I pulled his lapels downward, then took the right lapel and forced it to the left across his neck and down toward the floor. Nice and tight freshman move.

    He fought it, fought some more, his face turning purple, trying to get out. Then all of the sudden his eyes roll back in his head, and he goes limp.

    I let go, he twiches and convulses a bit, does this weird snorting thing (it was a bit scary at the time) starts breathing nornally.

    He wakes up, eyes twitching, sits up and says, "I forgot. I gotta get going. It is my son's birthday today."

    Then he got up, went straight to the locker room, grabbed his stuff and left. Didn't say another word to us. DId that all in under a minute.

    I found out about a week later that when he went out, the image he saw was his son sitting at his birthday party surrounded by presents. It really was his son's birthday, but I always thought it funny that that is what he saw... a little boys b-day party.

    And I woulda thought he might have seen the light!
     
  15. GracieStudent

    GracieStudent Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    i'm sorry, but that is a classic!!
     
  16. satchmo

    satchmo The Champ

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    2,433
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    I think it is definitely the chokee's responsibility to tap. It is hard to tell how tight you have the choke in and whether it will take a few seconds or more to make them go unconscious. The person being choked has a lot better realization of these things. I was rolling with a hardass football player type in beginners class a few years ago. He had a good 50 pounds or so on me and was trying to muscle me all over the place. I happened to catch a really deep collar choke from guard and applied it for 5 seconds or so, I kind of had the feeling he wasn't going to tap, but I wasn't sure. I stayed in the choke until I felt him go limp. He started doing some crazy snorting shit and the class all stopped and looked over at us. Our instructor rushed over and started giving him some light slaps to make him come around. I felt like an ass afterwards, but my instructor reassured me that it is ultimately the person being choked who is responsible to know their limits and tap in time.
     
  17. S.D.Force

    S.D.Force Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2004
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    1
    it's both parties responsibility to make sure training is safe....

    When a choke is set in most people will try to defend or squirm out. That is normal and expected. Variations of how tight and quick it is put on initially vary greatly. Sometimes you're not even sure how tight your own choke is. Sometimes you aren't aware you only have 2 or 3 seconds before you will be OUT. But, as your thought process races to decide how to defend the choke and you figure you should alter your position and use this technique to loosen it up, blah, blah, blah.....then bam, you're out in a few seconds....plain and simple, emotions run high, and people can easily misjudge..

    Both partners need to be aware of the dangers chokes and joint locks posess. If you don't fully understand that both partners are needed for safe training then you need to get out of the sport. Training is just that....training. It's not a street fight, and it's not tournament play. You are not two world champions going at it in the finals. You are probably just punk kids, teenagers , or some average joe that is just training for whatever reason. Don't be so concerned with finishing a choke, etc..... in a tournament where it really matters there are many eyes watching to help make the environment safer.
     
  18. ARIS

    ARIS Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2002
    Messages:
    3,190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Greece
    I have been choked out once, he set me up while i was trying to pass the guard, when i passed i was choking already i fall asleep while i tryed to get the armbar....... I was dreaming i was in competition-LOL. 2 Times i have choked out a guy in training... not on purpose he wasn't tapping. The reaction of the class is ok everybody asks "What did you dream... what did you dream?" Lol funny stuff.
     
  19. DirectDrive

    DirectDrive Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    6,544
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    outskirts of life

    that's what we do too.
     
  20. jamison

    jamison Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,519
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've been out twice. Both times to a triangle, and it was by my best friend, a high level purple. Did it because once I did it on purpose because I was talking smack and did not want to tap (beetween friends) and the other i thought I was safe and went out "quick". Both times I woke up quickly and asked where I was. Never hurt, slight headache once. Good times.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.