Punch power and force generation across known big power punchers- Carwin, Wilder, Johnson, Hunt etc

[Boxing_paloney]

a hard punch starts with all the weight on the same foot (back foot for orthodox right cross) but upon impact there is little or no weight on the back foot.

You’re right, unless you shift. Landing so far forward on his toe feels like he’s flirting with shifting.

 

[TheMaster]

i think that mcclellan and nigel benn are interesting to watch. both where massive punchers, but benn punched off the ground more (similar to the way i generate force) whereas mcclellan had a smoother punching action and didn't seem to push off the back foot as much. mathew saad muhammed also had a punching style the didn't have an obvious big shift off weight. i believe this kind of puncher is extremely dangerous as their punches are harder to see coming.

There are definately guys who have insane punch power without a huge transfer of body weight.
This is due I believe to hand speed and tendon power as the primary force generation mechanics, with good rooting in your stance.
A guy like Gastelum has this kind of scary handspeed KO power. It is closer to the type of power advocated and developed in systems like WC, in fact whenever I see Gastelum punch I think of Bruce Lee, there is some hip rotation but basically they are 'arm punches' with a strong whiplash force.

Famous Bruce Lee quote:
"A Karate punch is like an iron bar, it goes whack.
A kungfu punch is like an iron chain with an iron ball attached to the chain and it goes 'WANG', and it hurts inside"

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

Can't you pretty obviously see him shift is weight from the back foot to the front foot in that gif?

 

[Boxing_paloney]

That Gastelum gif shows some good shot placement and selection too. It's easier for him to drive the elbow through because that hook made him stand up straight first. Not that he doesn't have good power.

 

[ironkhan57]

Can't you pretty obviously see him shift is weight from the back foot to the front foot in that gif?

That's what I was thinking lol. That 1-2 had nothing to do with wing Chun.

 

[TheMaster]

Can't you pretty obviously see him shift is weight from the back foot to the front foot in that gif?

Cant you obviously see the the first right hand is mainly an arm punch which is how he throws many of his punches?
I mentioned that he does turn the hips as well. But his handspeed is higher than most other fighters I can think of. It is this that adds velocity and power as visible in all his fights.

I am not interested in turning this into a discussion about WC. Many people seem to get their panties in a knot whenever the term is mentioned and try to immediately deny any connection.
I couldnt really care less, the similarity in mechanics is obvious if you know what your looking at and I have shared my thoughts on it. Your free to disagree and thats fine, there are different takes on punching and ways of generating force/ individual styles which is why this thread is here to discuss about punching in general.
If you want to deny Gastelum gets alot of his power from speed and strength of tendon extension on top of hip rotation ( and accurate placement) then good luck with that.
He throws hands at insane speed and is damn good at generating power this way.

 

[ironkhan57]

Cant you obviously see the the first right hand is mainly an arm punch which is how he throws many of his punches?
I mentioned that he does turn the hips as well. But his handspeed is higher than most other fighters I can think of. It is this that adds velocity and power as visible in all his fights.

I am not interested in turning this into a discussion about WC. Many people seem to get their panties in a knot whenever the term is mentioned and try to immediately deny any connection.
I couldnt really care less, the similarity in mechanics is obvious if you know what your looking at and I have shared my thoughts on it. Your free to disagree and thats fine, there are different takes on punching and ways of generating force/ individual styles which is why this thread is here to discuss about punching in general.
If you want to deny Gastelum gets alot of his power from speed and strength of tendon extension on top of hip rotation ( and accurate placement) then good for you.
He throws hands at insane speed and is damn good at generating power this way.

I don't know what gif you were looking at, but it looked more like a proper right hand than an arm punch. He kind reached for it to by the looks of it.

Edit: lol I forgot gastelum is a southpaw lmao.

 

[eternaldarkness]

Can't you pretty obviously see him shift is weight from the back foot to the front foot in that gif?

There is some shift but he isn't exactly punching off the back foot like hendo

 

[TheMaster]

Another who has generated alot of attention with his punch power is Fedor, both standing and on the ground.
He looks sloppy and all over the place, huge overhands often connecting when one or both feet are actually in the air. He makes Wilder look like a punching conservative. But still brutally effective and held his own on the feet against elite strikers like Cro Cop. The power vs technique argument.
You can see he puts everything into each punch, not so much 'boxing' but swinging with intent and comittment.

 

[eternaldarkness]

Another who has generated alot of attention with his punch power is Fedor, both standing and on the ground.
He looks sloppy and all over the place, huge overhands often connecting when one or both feet are actually in the air. He makes Wilder look like a punching conservative. But still brutally effective and held his own on the feet against elite strikers like Cro Cop. The power vs technique argument.View attachment 489357
You can see he puts everything into each punch, not so much 'boxing' but swinging with intent and comittment.

There are a number of ways to generate power. A lot of people don't seem to realise that punching technique in boxing has a lot to do with defence not maximum generation of power.

 

[facePuncher7]

Guys who are braced hit stiff; guys who are lax hit like pillows.

I don't agree that that is a primary factor in striking power.

My power has always been a strong point, and I'm very relaxed/flowy when I strike.

 

[Boxing_paloney]

Fedor punches a lot like Foreman, or at least he looks like it.

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

There are a number of ways to generate power. A lot of people don't seem to realise that punching technique in boxing has a lot to do with defence not maximum generation of power.

Exactly this. Boxing technique is usually powerful, but it's more importantly powerful and safe if performed right.
Fedor can (well, could) get away with his loopy punches like that because he's an extremely accomplished clincher and he was fighting in a ruleset where you can clinch all you want. He could throw a punch like that and move straight into the clinch where his opponent couldn't respond.

Incidentally, the first point is why professional fighters can get away with things that aren't "textbook" - they've developed the knowledge of the dynamics of a fight to generally be able to recognize when you can let safety somewhat slide in preference of power (if the opponent is staggered, as a basic example). "Don't do this" is a lot easier for a beginner to get than "well if you do this and your opponent knows what they're doing, they can drop you, but if you know they can't respond, it's okay..." Basic heuristics and lies-to-children.

 

[ironkhan57]

Exactly this. Boxing technique is usually powerful, but it's more importantly powerful and safe if performed right.
Fedor can (well, could) get away with his loopy punches like that because he's an extremely accomplished clincher and he was fighting in a ruleset where you can clinch all you want. He could throw a punch like that and move straight into the clinch where his opponent couldn't respond.

Incidentally, the first point is why professional fighters can get away with things that aren't "textbook" - they've developed the knowledge of the dynamics of a fight to generally be able to recognize when you can let safety somewhat slide in preference of power (if the opponent is staggered, as a basic example). "Don't do this" is a lot easier for a beginner to get than "well if you do this and your opponent knows what they're doing, they can drop you, but if you know they can't respond, it's okay..." Basic heuristics and lies-to-children.

That is the same in every combat sport hell even boxing you can use techniques from karate and muay thai, just not use elbows and obviously kicks.

 

[rmongler]

I don't agree that that is a primary factor in striking power.

My power has always been a strong point, and I'm very relaxed/flowy when I strike.

It's hard to explain in a short space (which is why it can be so difficult to find a good explanation).

Some guys can't keep cued the muscles they need to cue without tensing all of their muscles at the same time; this is a neuromuscular engram issue and needs to be corrected with instruction. Guys like this when they spar hard or fight and want to hit harder will be all tensed up, and ironically reduce their power due to different muscles working against each other, will gas out due to extraneous muscle contraction. More experienced guys will often then tell these guys to relax, and if they do they will have better endurance. Still not hitting any harder yet though.

Other guys, on the other hand, can cue just the muscles in the kinetic chain they need for the movement they need, and only those muscles, while everything else is relaxed; can cue them at just the moment they need, and be relaxed before, and more quickly back to relaxed after. You can call these people 'naturals', and can potentially become even better with more conscious instruction.

In any case, if the full chain for a movement (like a punch) is not cued at the moment of impact, if you are more lax at one or more points along the kinetic chain at the moment of impact, then your impact will be 'squishy', will have energy leaks, as if you were hitting them with a pillow or shock absorber, rather than a solid piece.