Pulling Guard In Competition

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by SpaceBoogie, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. SpaceBoogie

    SpaceBoogie The Autumn Wind Is A Raider

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    What do you guys think of pulling guard in competition?

    Should competitors try to at least play some stand up?

    Should you get negative points for pulling guard like in Rickson's Budo Challenge?
     
  2. dirtypablo

    dirtypablo Brown Belt

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    This has been discussed to death. Its a legit strategy. You go into a competition to win. Everyone should work their takedowns, but if your guard/sweeping game is significantly better than your takedowns, there is nothing wrong with pulling guard.
     
  3. RyanR

    RyanR Black Belt

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    Yeah this is done all the time and it always turns into two sides:

    1) People saying BJJers should work on their takedowns

    2) People saying "I dont want to spend 5 hours working for a takedown"

    My thoughts: Personally I think that pulling guard should count as an advantage for the other guy. BJJ is based on obtaining the best position possible. Guard may be neutral, but BJJ is a martial art first and if you ask any BJJ practitioner if he would want to be on top or bottom in a street fight he will tell you top if given the choice.

    Having guard pulls cost an advantage isn't exactly too much of a penalty. If the guy on bottom stays busy he can easily make that up. However I feel that this might make some people train takedowns a bit more, which is never a bad thing. All the BJJ in the world won't do you any good if you can't take it the ground.
     
  4. Belatucadros

    Belatucadros Brown Belt

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    I'd be cool with that (re: advantage)
     
  5. brandon0627

    brandon0627 White Belt

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    Nothing wrong with it for BJJ I pull guard if I can't get a takedown in the first 30 sec or minute or if I know my opponent is a better wrestler or judo player. I don't think it's good for MMA unless you're defending a takedown all ready or you're just that much better on the ground than your opponent and your striking isn't the best for your level of competition (i.e. Damian Mia).
     
  6. chino3

    chino3 Purple Belt

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    why would the other guy get anything including an advantage if you pull guard? if you think people should be focusing on take downs, maybe the other guy should have, oh I dont know, gotten the take down!!! If you cannot complete a take down before some one pulls guard, thats your bad. no points for either party.

    That said, I am more comfortable off my back, so going for a take down is not only a lot of risky work, but if successful puts me in a position where I am not my most confident/strongest.

    Shoot, if you pick up the worlds dvd's that came out today, check out Cavaca's matches and tell me what you think about pulling guard (half guard but still)
     
  7. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Agreed with this and im a Judo guy, the only thing i really hate about BJJ is jumping into guard, because its the explotaition of another rule (no slam from guard), if you manage to bend your opponent and pull him into the guard its HIS problem.

    People who complain are mainly wrestlers and club judokas with no ability to use footwork and smart grip fighting to prevent them from being pulled.

    Not to justify guard pullers, there are much more skilled entries into the ground than guard pulling that requrie the same grips and can be easily trained, and where you don't need to train into the details of standup.
     
  8. 206warrior

    206warrior Purple Belt

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    I'm fine with it. In my opinion the goal of bjj is to end the fight, not to gain dominant position. This isn't wrestling. And I am saying that as a wrestler.
     
  9. chino3

    chino3 Purple Belt

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    yup. plus I go into guard with a plan, a plan to finish the fight. its not to stall, or tire the guy out, its to set up my game. not to mention, I am 29, and my body has been through a lot (tore both MCL's, popped both floater ribs, etc), so I dont always feel as agile as I need to be to go for an ankle pick or dive for a double leg. But not I am working on my throws with my judo buddies
     
  10. 206warrior

    206warrior Purple Belt

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    Yeah for sure. In BJJ you aren't pinning the guy, you are working for a sub, which in my opinion, changes how positions should be looked at.
     
  11. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    I like it when people pull guard on me because in competition I feel most comfortable passing guard and playing top game. So I want other people to pull guard. I usually try for a takedown but if it isn't happening I go for a sacrifice throw or a guard pull as a last resort.
     
  12. 206warrior

    206warrior Purple Belt

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    What do you think about the concept of it though? do you think it is a viable strategy?
     
  13. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    It's a personal choice and a valid choice for certain people.

    For me, it's a bad call. No matter how great my guard, it's hard working on the bottom with someone that weighs 250 lbs or more. I should be working from the top.

    So, I started taking judo and honestly the randori alone has made me way more confident on my feet. I'll not be pulling guard again unless I reevaluate and decide that it is a valid choice again.
     
  14. mtruitt76

    mtruitt76 Purple Belt

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    What pulling guard? Yes it is a viable strategy. In fact it is the dominant strategy for the rooster, light feather, feather, and light weight divisions. In these weight classes the majority of matches involve guard pulling. As the weight divisions go up you will see more people play for take downs, but guard pulling is still common and viable at the higher weights.
     
  15. Jdonw

    Jdonw Green Belt

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    I would jump guard on you. But I am practicing take downs so that I can get on the top of the people that don't train them like you do. Pulling guard is a viable strategy, but I hate to see the people(mainly white and blue), that only rely on jumping guard, it is a vary narrow strategy. Personally, I will try to fight standing, but decide very quick based on the other person whether to jump guard or fight for a take down.

    As an example of pulling guard being a bad choice. A rooster weight jumped guard on me(200lbs) in open weight. I don't think it was the best strategy to dive under a man 1.5x his weight who is going to try to crush you.
     
  16. MUFC

    MUFC Brown Belt

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    Pulling guard is a great strategy.

    I will fight for a takedown for a little bit, and pull guard if I don't get the td quickly.

    Two reasons:

    1) I fancy myself a decent guard player
    2) Fighting for tds takes more out of my gas tank than playing from guard.
     
  17. Fedorzilla

    Fedorzilla Brown Belt

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    I go in, try to get grips. Normally, when you do this you can tell whether the person
    a) knows what they're doing and/or b) is as or more strong than you are.

    So, if I tie up with them and can tell they're a dangerous judo guy, I pull guard. If they don't seem that technical or strong, I'll work for wrestling takedowns or throws. Sure, there are guys out there that will toss you in a split second just from the initial grips, but this is rare in BJJ.
     
  18. mtruitt76

    mtruitt76 Purple Belt

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    Nah, I would beat you to the guard pull. :icon_chee

    We actually train to pull guard before the other person can. Both people will slap hands and the goal is to pull guard before the other guy can. We also have a guard pulling drill where one person has to pull guard and the other person is attempting to gain control of a leg to get points off the guard pull.
     
  19. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    with the focus on guardpulling I could see on skill being overlooked and it is not takedowns

    Seems way better to train to regain guard immediately when the takedown happens, or train your scrambles or backtakes from throws

    Jumping guard is a more artificial skill, to get to guard if you are taken down (even during a takedown) seems better,

    Now if a sweep follows right after the guardpull it is not a guardpull it is just a slow sacrifice throw
     
  20. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    yeah I agree with this

    next time if somebody does this I won't struggle to keep standing and just fall forwards, that isn't a slam in my opinion:icon_chee
     

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