Proportional Body Development

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Adnan Adil, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Adnan Adil

    Adnan Adil Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    European Union
    Hi, guys! I wonder how many of you train using special program. I mean do you have some workout routine which is made from professional?
    Personally I workout quite often. I prefer the long workouts compared with the intensive ones. I don't have some goal like to become World champion or something else and I feel comfortable with my training routines (I change them from time to time).
    However not long time ago, I've read somewhere that one of the most common reason for injuries was the body imbalance. In the professional sport this was the reason in about 70 percent of the cases. Despite of the fact that I don't train like pro for sure, I've started to wonder am I training my body good enough? Do you use some tests to decide are there weaknesses in your muscle groups or something like that? Do you have some ratios for instance for chest- back workouts, like x times push ups, x times pull ups?
     
    corpse and Phlog like this.
  2. Phlog

    Phlog Dad Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    10,591
    Likes Received:
    8,679
    I tend to do the same pulls as I do pushes, so I'll bench 100kg then do the same weight in a barbell row. The principal is the same everywhere else, except I rarely train biceps. I identify weaknesses by determining the relative strength of muscles, I also use posture and performance during sport to identify areas that need attention.
     
    Adnan Adil and corpse like this.
  3. Pugilistic

    Pugilistic Red Belt

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,135
    Likes Received:
    13,220
    Are you talking about bent over barbell rows? That's insane. I can't imagine rowing the same weight as I bench.
     
    Adnan Adil likes this.
  4. Phlog

    Phlog Dad Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    10,591
    Likes Received:
    8,679
    Yup, I currently have to take off a couple of kilos to hit the same rep range, benched 104 for 10x3 on Friday, then 80kg incline 10x3.

    Then pulled 100 for 10x3, had to cheat on the last couple. For the bent over row the body is at a 45' angle. That's my heavy back movement, then I hit some cable pulls targeting lower back and finally some single arm landmine rows.

    I'm a total amateur but I kinda figured that the shoulder, being able to move in all directions should be balanced with the same force from the tendons. In my mind the muscle and tendons attached to the joint have a sort of resting tension and a loaded tension, that those should be balanced with the forces on the opposite side of the joint. That I can increase resting tension with hypertrophy and loaded with strength and power training.

    I likewise balance my military press with pull ups, with that I'm pressing 1rm 86kg and pulling bodyweight of 121kg 12x3.

    In my sport I'm always pushing explosively (offensive lineman American football) so a lot of my sport training is push based. That's why I focus on the counter motion so much.

    I've recently near fixed a long-term chronic knee problem by bulking up the hamstrings, basically every tendon injury or indicator Ive ever had has told me that the opposite of your main motions is pretty much more important than the main motion. Or at least that thinking so helps reduce the innate bias towards your prime motions.

    Pro tip, use wraps when pulling heavy so your CNS hasn't got grip strength to think about and you'll find the heavy pulls much easier.

    Train grip when training grip, don't let it slow down your progress everywhere else.
     
    Pugilistic likes this.
  5. corpse

    corpse Random Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    8,070
  6. bad seed

    bad seed Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    19,828
    Likes Received:
    29,427
    then you have a severe imbalance and are at high risk of shoulder injury. Read Wendler's 5/3/1 to get an idea of how to properly program rows. He advocates 5x10 done in between bench sets. Even that is too little IMO. You should be rowing (or doing pull/chinups on shoulder press days) as frequently as possible. Before even your first press of the workout.
     
    Phlog likes this.
  7. Pugilistic

    Pugilistic Red Belt

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,135
    Likes Received:
    13,220
    I thought mechanically it was very difficult for most people to bent over row as much as they can bench since with the bench, you have the bench supporting you. I try to compensate by putting in more volume with my pulling movements. My max bench for one rep is 110kg but with the row, it was 85kg. Do you think this would be a problem? I do pullups everytime I work out because I'm afraid of that imbalance.
     
  8. corpse

    corpse Random Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    8,070
    you could try bench rows.
     
    Pugilistic likes this.
  9. bad seed

    bad seed Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    19,828
    Likes Received:
    29,427
    most typical gymbros have this imbalance from overemphasis on benching. No cause for alarm, just add a lot more rowing to your routine. Attack every type- bentover, dumbell, cable, etc. The great thing about a row-heavy routine is that the body can tolerate it well (unlike excessive benching which can aggravate shoulder issues). And a stronger back contributes to pressing.
     
    Phlog, wufabufa and Pugilistic like this.
  10. Adnan Adil

    Adnan Adil Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    European Union
    In bodyweight exercise aspect most people can do much more push ups than pull ups. In my opinion most people train more their front muscles. For instance for me it is not normal to be able to do 150 push ups and only 10- 12 pull ups. This proportion for me should be something like 1:4. Any views on push ups- pull ups ratio?
     
  11. Pugilistic

    Pugilistic Red Belt

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,135
    Likes Received:
    13,220
    Unfortunately my gym doesn't have the equipment to do this. I guess the heaviest rows I can do that don't tax my back that much is the rowing machine?
    I imagine a more accurate comparison would be pullups and hand stand push ups. Since part of your weight is supported with your feet in push ups. That being said, my push up to pull up ratio is much closer. I think I can do maybe 40 push ups in one set and I can currently do 14 pull ups in one set.

    Not to mention it makes you sexy as fuck. I wish I had a back like this dude.
    [​IMG]
     
    Adnan Adil likes this.
  12. bad seed

    bad seed Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    19,828
    Likes Received:
    29,427
    lol check out Lu's mobility warmups
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    he's older now and moved up a weight class so isn't as ripped anymore.
     
    Pugilistic likes this.
  13. Pugilistic

    Pugilistic Red Belt

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,135
    Likes Received:
    13,220
    Jesus it might be just me but I bet a back like that would get the ladies dripping wet. Or maybe I'm just getting wet.
    I was actually looking for picture I saw on IG of Tian Tao's back but I couldn't find it so I "settled" with Lu's.
    How do you get a back like without being an elite oly lifter? Just tons of deads and rows?
     
  14. Phlog

    Phlog Dad Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    10,591
    Likes Received:
    8,679
    When you push up half your bodyweight is supported on your feet.

    When you pull up it's your whole body weight.
     
  15. Thunderhead

    Thunderhead Assman Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    8,635
    Likes Received:
    15,729
    Location:
    San Antonio del Mar, B.C., Mexico
    If you want a back like that, then you've gotta pull and pull often. Snatches and cleans and their variations are what sculpted his back. The Chinese weightlifters are also known to incorporate bodybuilding exercises into their regimen as accessories.
     
    Pugilistic likes this.
  16. Adnan Adil

    Adnan Adil Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    European Union
    Man, it seem that your back is stronger than your chest, like in my case.
     
  17. bad seed

    bad seed Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    19,828
    Likes Received:
    29,427
     
  18. TheeFaulted

    TheeFaulted Inzer Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,204
    Likes Received:
    583
    Pull at least twice as often as you push.
     
    Phlog likes this.
  19. Adnan Adil

    Adnan Adil Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    European Union
    Do you believe that the back muscles should be twice stronger than the chest muscles? I have always believed that pulling is harder because it demands strong grip.
     
  20. corpse

    corpse Random Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    8,070
    for bwe amrap sets i alsways had the impression that that if you can do 10 pull ups you should be able to do at least 20 dips and 40 pushups to be in a good balance. all with good form and no half reps.

    but i can one arm row twice the weight i can one arm overhead press for example. you have to watch the working direction and general evolutionary purpose of muscle groups to determine their strong positions/functions. pulling from the ground for example is much more natural than from above your head. while pushing to the ground is much more natural than pushing to above your head. at least this is how i explain why one can always do more dips than pull ups or why one can row more weight from the ground than push overhead. the muscles have their optimal working directions.

    @Sano correct me please if this is bullshit

    what i do for years now and is feeling just right for me is to alternate one set of pushing with one set of pulling. keeping sets/reps equal.
     
    Adnan Adil likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.