Proof that fighter>style/rules

Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by under, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. under

    under Orange Belt

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    Hi does anyone have any good examples of kickboxers beating MT fighters in FULL THAI RULES using mostly kb style attacks (combo spam, no elbows/prolonged clinching)? I'm thinking mostly Dekkers here. Any good specific fights?

    Also vice versa, MT fighters beating KBers in KB rules (glory style preferable, two hand clinch okay) using mainly thai style attacks (teep, body kick, clinch). I know Buakaw has a lot of these kinda victories, but Im looking for what yall see as the best example.

    Also, boxer beating a KB/MT fighter in KB/MT rules using boxing centric attacks.

    Need to prove to a friend that its the fighter and not the style... Mostly.
     
  2. under

    under Orange Belt

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    bump
     
  3. miraclecomeback

    miraclecomeback Purple Belt

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    Would Botha vs Le Banner be an example of boxer beating a KB?
     
  4. Razor Bump

    Razor Bump The Authority On Stand Up Fighting

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  5. Razor Bump

    Razor Bump The Authority On Stand Up Fighting

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  6. Cocakillbana

    Cocakillbana Black Belt

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  7. ichibang

    ichibang Black Belt

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    Bad news TS it is the style not the fighter, Buakaw/Schilt would be undefeated in k1 if they hadn't changed the rule.
    How can you beat fighter in Glory rule with Thai style when they forbid full Thai clinch/elbow/throws/sweep
    And the late Dekkers haven't really won fights in full Thai rule once Thai fighters just clinch and knee him to oblivion.
    By your logic that it is about fighters then Floyd would just decision every one in Glory rule without knowing to block kicks.

    You need to mix it up dudes and that is what makes Buakaw awesome.
     
  8. Razor Bump

    Razor Bump The Authority On Stand Up Fighting

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    I'm assuming you never saw this fight.... it was Muay Thai. lol
    Typo I'm sure, to hype to type
     
  9. under

    under Orange Belt

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    Thanks for the response yall, good examples so far. Totally forgot about botha.

    Ichibang, yes, i know rules play a big big part in the end result. I'm just trying to find examples of cases where smart fighters can actually do little modifications to techniques theyve been doing their entire lives to cater to a different rule set. I hate Schilt too, id be happy if they put height limits just to have him out of future tournaments haha.

    Floyds style would get him murdered by kicks to his leg and head, while tyson might catch a KBer with a quick short uppercut. Rules/style play a role no doubt, i just need examples that individual smarts and strategies matter more....
     
  10. rugmuaythai

    rugmuaythai White Belt

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    I don't know if this counts, but Leo Espinosa, a world ranked fly weight from the Philippines (not the later Philippino bantam weight of the same name, but of late 1960s period), fought full muaythai rules around 1957. He lost a TKO thru leg kicks. Later he had a rematch with Lao Lertrit, who defeated him in the previous fight. This time it was Queensbury Rules fight, and Leo Espinosa took his revenge by knocking out Lao Lertrit in the first round.
    Both bouts are historic and doccumented. Any one in Thailand can probably check this out.
     
  11. rugmuaythai

    rugmuaythai White Belt

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    I'm with your friend. I'm talking about traditional style, and not MMA. The style should include how the fighter is trained and groomed.
     
  12. ichibang

    ichibang Black Belt

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    Remind me of when the great Dieselnoi agreed to a mixed rule muay Thai and boxing alternating round
    and got knocked out in the boxing round.

    I doubt TS will find example in decent level competition, even in kyokushin muay Thai rivalry
    the karate fighters had to study muay Thai and train in boxing glove before the fight.

    Buakaw and other muay Thai fighters trolling by clinch and toss in k1 bout is probably the best example.
    Or may be kyokushin fighters who manage to use its style kick to beat experienced kick boxers.
    But of course they have to cross train or they will end up getting knocked out by punches.
     
  13. CPH

    CPH Let's party

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    Generally-speaking, someone who is not familiar with the rules will get his shit pushed in. So you can find rare exceptions but those hardly prove the point you are trying to make, especially when very often, the guy pulling off the upset is fighting someone past their prime, underweight or in hostile territory.

    That said, if you want to see kickboxers doing well under thai rules, check out Gilbert Ballantine, Rayen Simson, Ivan Hippolyte, Genki Yamamoto, Magomed Magomedov.

    Obviously, a kickboxer's success under FTR has mostly to do with him acquiring the necessary experience and techniques to become competitive and thereby becoming essentially a thai boxer with some KB techniques and habits. At that point, he is as different from a thai boxer as some of the thai boxer specialists are from each other and the discussion becomes pointless..
     
  14. under

    under Orange Belt

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    Do u have the video of said dieselnoi fight? They should do more of these alternating ruleset fights haha

    I guess its kinda clear that everyone needs adjustment periods when fighting under a new ruleset, whether it be practicing kick checks, clinch escapes, un learning head movement, but their very basic mindset to victory cant possibly that far off from how their trained.

    I guess an MMA example would be easier. CroCop is a striker. He will never be an ADCC level sub expert, or an NCAA level takedown artist. Yes he developed a nice sprawl from wrestling training, but this was mainly done to bring the fight to his territory, to turn the fight into a KB match.

    Im looking for these examples in striking focused fights/rulesets.
     
  15. rugmuaythai

    rugmuaythai White Belt

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    It was Sangsakda Kittigasem who knocked out Dieselnoi. I believe he is teaching muaythai in the US( not certain).
     
  16. under

    under Orange Belt

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    Link please? I couldn't find any thru the goog. THANKS!
     
  17. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    the Kyokushin fighters didn't study Muay Thai for that Kyokushin vs Muay Thai challenge accepted by Mas Oyama. They did train kickboxing on top of their kyokushin training for that challenge though, to get used to the gloves (punching and blocking with gloves instead of bare hands).
    It was initially supposed to be fought with bare hands but the Thai changed their mind and demanded gloves.
    If you watch the videos, the Kyokushin fighters mostly used judo throws when in the clinch.
    They did good considering the fights were with Thai rules only, they won 2 out of the 3 fights by KO. The fight that they lost was fought by one of their instructors instead of the third fighter who had to go back to Japan as the event had been delayed several times.

    Andy Hug would be a great example of that, axe kicks and spinning kicks for the win :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013

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