Problem with refs stopping submissions.

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Polynomial_C, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. Polynomial_C

    Polynomial_C Brown Belt

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    Any one else notice refs just put their hands on the fighters and when the submission is held on, they just pat the fighters bodies with urgency.

    Right way to do it;

    Refs should be getting in the right position to stop the fight and submission hold quickly. As soon as a fighter taps he should immediately initiate breaking the submission hold that the opponent is using.

    Done. If any fighter is resisting the ref's force - penalize him.
     
  2. eatthisjerry

    eatthisjerry Brown Belt

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    There should be some kind of shock device, where the ref could trigger from a remote control. This or a water bucket...

    But seriously, Toquinho had clear evidences that the fight was over.
     
  3. Clear Winner

    Clear Winner Big Poppa Pars

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    I did notice that pierce was tapping out on the refs back at one point.
     
  4. Vagitarian

    Vagitarian Brown Belt

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    Ref touches you, let go. simple.
     
  5. Polynomial_C

    Polynomial_C Brown Belt

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    But seriously,

    this isn't just about Palhares. This is been going on long enough and I've seen it for many years and it's no surprise this is happening. To avoid this, refs have to stop the fight differently regarding submissions. The refs have to intervene directly with the submission hold to prevent injury to the fighter. This is about protecting the athletes, avoiding injury as well as making it clearer to the person applying a submission. You cannot mess about with heel hooks, a fraction of a second is enough to do serious damage. Refs should be on the ball and stopping the fight where it matters and when it matters - removing force to the ankle or joint.

    Many refs just touch the area of the submission. They have to shout 'STOP' while applying a counter force to whatever is being cranked. Again, this is making it much clearer to the person doing the submission, alerting both fighters the match is over and it is physically removing force to what can cause or worsen an injury.
     
  6. Polynomial_C

    Polynomial_C Brown Belt

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    Ref touches you're opponent, they don't let go, you now have a broken leg. Simple.
     
  7. Vagitarian

    Vagitarian Brown Belt

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    Opponent doesn't let go, he gets released. Simple.
     
  8. Merman

    Merman Brown Belt

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    Refs need a certain level of submission knowledge themselves.
     
  9. Street Level

    Street Level Black Belt

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    Can the ref trying to "break up" the sub lead to more injury to a fighter potentially? As in the ref applying more torque to a joint lock on accident?
     
  10. TheNinja

    TheNinja Gold Belt

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    What's even more disturbing is when a guy has an armbar sunk in for example and the other guy taps out. The ref comes rushing in like a madman and actually applies additional force to the submission/joint being cranked on.

    I like your idea. I mean when a guy like Palhares is fighting and has a submission almost in, the ref should be literally right on top of the aciton, not standing a few feet away. Sure, if you get too close you're going to get the Erick Silva push out of the way, but either way the refs can do a better job.

    Re: Palhares, if it was his first time it's a total ripoff to cut the guy. However he has a history and they cna't continue to allow it. It's sad b/c I love watching hte guy fight. He brings something different to the table with his nasty submission game.

    I guess we're stuck with more "just bleed" stand and bang guys now, or more Maia vs Shields barnburners.
     
  11. SmilingBuddha

    SmilingBuddha Green Belt

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    Taser? I wouldn't mind that.. Haha.
     
  12. JOdrummerSH

    JOdrummerSH Polyrhythmic Preposter

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    LOL at any of the refs "breaking up" a heel hook, let alone a paul harris one. please make a video of this technique and post it here
     
  13. BiasBEgone

    BiasBEgone Purple Belt

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    In this BS organization yes. I will give an unrelated example that illustrate my point about UFC antics:

    You lay`n pray for 3 fights in a row, get a title shot and get your ass beat.

    Then you get popped for PED`s, win more 3 fights and than get your ass beat AGAIN.

    If you ask someone who does not know the history, they will find it ridiculously crazy when they find out that the fighter we`re talking about actually managed to get a title shot right away after his second championship ass beating. Of course, with a TRT exemption.
     
  14. GrantB13

    GrantB13 Brown Belt

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    I thought that too.

    Basically, the refs should just punch the fighter holding the sub. They'll let go.
     
  15. manwich

    manwich Green Belt

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    You're right, this is an "unrelated" example and really has nothing to do with this topic...

    Responding to TS idea, I see what you're saying and I would assume that some if not most of these referee's have some grappling experience to understand the submissions that are being performed (if they don't have experience, IMO the athletic commission should really look into having the referees take mandatory grappling classes or something to that effect). So maybe they should be specific on what needs to be done to stop the fighters when someone taps like you say, but bottom line when the ref says "stop" and is physically telling you to stop, you should let go right away. If you can't understand simple commands like that, the maybe you shouldn't be allowed to professionally fight. Just my two cents.
     
  16. One4Deuce

    One4Deuce Purple Belt

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    This, there's no reason for refs to put their hands on fighters unless they're stopping something. So you feel the refs hands on you, you let go. I don't think it's really all that feasible to expect a referee to be able to really pry a submission loose if the guy applying it doesn't want it to be released. Think of a ref trying to break up a rear naked choke... good luck.
     
  17. manwich

    manwich Green Belt

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    Agreed, especially if even that won't cause the guy to let go.

    Example:

    Skip to 2:00 to see the end of the fight.
     
  18. Polynomial_C

    Polynomial_C Brown Belt

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    And you have a broken leg, and out for a year +. Simple!
     
  19. Polynomial_C

    Polynomial_C Brown Belt

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    No, because force is applied in only one direction in a submission. The ref would just peel the persons hands from the ankle for example, or break the grip of the wrist if applying an armbar etc.
     
  20. Polynomial_C

    Polynomial_C Brown Belt

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    I don't need to. Use your head man. Tell me, how do you "break up" a heel hook by diving on the person getting heel hooked. Use your head man.
     

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