Prime Silva vs Gastelum

[Intellidamus]

LOL...no he didn't that initial strike was the really the only meaningful strike that Chael landed the whole fight, he had a few moments where he landed some dirty boxing. Silva haters have been clinging on to that for years.....it's not a big deal. Chael faked a shot and went over the top with a punch that literally had no effect on Andy aside from knocking him of balance. If you actually watch the fight and the limited stand up sequences of the rounds Anderson pretty clearly out strikes Chael. Nothing happened in round 2, Andy went for a kick and got taken down. Round 3 and 4 Andy landed several good strikes including a standing elbow that actually dropped Chael. Watch the opening of round 4.
400 × 226

I watched the fight live. And many times since.
But I guess I should take your word for it. ...

 

[vanillaisis]

Gastelum falls into the same trap other prime Silva victims gets in and gets TKO'd in the second. Silva can be beat, not by Gastelum though.

 

[dmwalking]

Silva by Ko. If Adesanya could do that, Silva could do more. Silva had more power in his punches.

 

[Andreh]

They are trying to compare the garbage Adesanya vs the almighty Anderson Silva... Seriously, this must stop now. Anderson was light-years better and more entertainment than Adesanya. Adesanya is a nobody, let's stop talking about this. Hype train will derail soon.

 

[Maroli]

Silva seemed so invincible in his UFC run that I cant accept the thought of anyone beating him back then.

Was this the UFC run where he was taken down and mounted by Travis Lutter or taken down repeatedly by Chael? He won every fight where he wasn't against a top grappler (except Hendo who also took him down, Hendo and Belfort are definitely great wins) but 185 was weak in this regard during his reign. And I'm not knocking his MW GOAT'ness, it's just that he looked unbeatable largely because of the weak competition at the time. Anyway, I do think he beats Gastelum because Gastelum is a tad undersized to be a powerful wrestler at 185.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

Lol if you think todays MW division is tougher than the past

Whittaker

Romero

STylebender


YEah prime Silva gets shit on in todays MW division

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Anderson by first round KO. Is normal.

 

[JKS]

View attachment 567303
I watched the fight live. And many times since.
But I guess I should take your word for it. ...

Brilliant! You managed to prove that Chael landed a whole bunch of strikes on the ground lol. Fightmetric is exactly what you shouldn't use to try and prove your point here. You're talking about the few stand up sequences in the fight, what does the total strikes prove that we already don't know?

 

[Intellidamus]

Brilliant! You managed to prove that Chael landed a whole bunch of strikes on the ground lol. Fightmetric is exactly what you shouldn't use to try and prove your point here. You're talking about the few stand up sequences in the fight, what does the total strikes prove that we already don't know?

What doesn’t seem to make any sense is that Andy was outstruck by 256 strikes total, outstruck by 60 significant strikes & you’re attempting to hang your whole argument on one good strike at the beginning of the 4th round.

 

[Franklin U.]

Lol if you think todays MW division is tougher than the past

When SFORCE middles first came over all the way to the point of Luke dropping the fucking ball. That was thee period of time of UFC s best top heavy part of pecking order at 185. Today is a mess .... all because of rockhold. I can actually indirectly blame Anderson for all this but I wont explain cause it's a sour spot for me.

 

[JKS]

What doesn’t seem to make any sense is that Andy was outstruck by 256 strikes total, outstruck by 60 significant strikes & you’re attempting to hang your whole argument on one good strike at the beginning of the 4th round.

No one is arguing that Andy wasn't outland heavily in this fight. From my perspective outstruck means stand up. And from the limited moments in the stand up, aside the few shots Chael landed, Andy won that. Total strikes, yes, it wasn't even close so you're correct in that.

 

[Intellidamus]

No one is arguing that Andy wasn't outland heavily in this fight. From my perspective outstruck means stand up. And from the limited moments in the stand up, aside the few shots Chael landed, Andy won that. Total strikes, yes, it wasn't even close so you're correct in that.

Looks like we are going in circles. I’ll just agree to disagree. Aside from Andy’s brief moments I feel as if Chael got the best of him even on the feet. Since we aren’t allowed to use statistics in this debate it becomes entirely subjective. I’m not changing your mind and you aren’t changing mine.

 

[SpedDaddyV]

There is not a single MW alive that I would bet on against prime Silva

Except Travis Lutter

 

[JKS]

Looks like we are going in circles. I’ll just agree to disagree. Aside from Andy’s brief moments I feel as if Chael got the best of him even on the feet. Since we aren’t allowed to use statistics in this debate it becomes entirely subjective. I’m not changing your mind and you aren’t changing mine.

All I am trying to say is that Andy didn't get outstruck standing the whole fight. He certainly didn't dominate or beat up Chael standing either. The perception of this fight somehow revolves around that big shot Chael landed and somehow it's perceived the whole fight went like that in the stand up, so I am just giving light to the fact that Andy had multiple exchanges he won. Both guys had their moments standing, Chael in round 1 and Andy in 3 and 4.

 

[JKS]

I'm a huge Anderson fan but the sport has evolved. Prime Anderson wouldn't be a top five fighter today. Prime Anderson struggled with guys like Thales Leites and Patrick Cote.

Sport hasn't evolved from when Andy dominated to know. You basically have a lesser version of Anderson with a inferior ground game as interim champ. Andy from his era would very easily be a champion level fighter today.

I guess by that standard Jon Jones struggled with Anthony Smith and Ovince St Preux. Or GSP struggled with Shields and Dan Hardy? You bring up his fights with Leitas and Cote, two fights he clealry won but yet don't talk about the higher level competition that he dominated. As I pointed out in this thread earlier, those fights went the way they did because Leitas and Cote didn't engage Silva and didn't offer any threat so Andy fought to their level and didn't take any risks. Just like Jones and Gsp.

 

[Intellidamus]

All I am trying to say is that Andy didn't get outstruck standing the whole fight. He certainly didn't dominate or beat up Chael standing either. The perception of this fight somehow revolves around that big shot Chael landed and somehow it's perceived the whole fight went like that in the stand up, so I am just giving light to the fact that Andy had multiple exchanges he won. Both guys had their moments standing, Chael in round 1 and Andy in 3 and 4.

Ok I respect your opinion but I’ll end with this. Chael only landed 3 takedowns and one of those was in the 5th, so 2 of the first 4 rounds he didn’t land a takedown. How did he win all 4 of those rounds? At least 2 of those rounds were entirely on the feet, right?

 

[JKS]

Was this the UFC run where he was taken down and mounted by Travis Lutter or taken down repeatedly by Chael? He won every fight where he wasn't against a top grappler (except Hendo who also took him down, Hendo and Belfort are definitely great wins) but 185 was weak in this regard during his reign. And I'm not knocking his MW GOAT'ness, it's just that he looked unbeatable largely because of the weak competition at the time. Anyway, I do think he beats Gastelum because Gastelum is a tad undersized to be a powerful wrestler at 185.

Pointing out a few moments doesn't really prove anything. I can try and tarnish Jon Jones and GSP and talk about tough moments they had in fights. I don't understand this perception you guys have that every top fighter needs to be perfect without and bad moments. The sport just doesnt work like that, it's not reality. Jon Jones got tagged hard by Machida, he got nearly subbed by Vitor Belfort, he got beat up standing by Gustaffson.....are we going to criticize him for that?? NO. There is not one fighter in the history of any combat sport that goes without having something you can point the finger at. Floyd Mayweather had moments where he was rocked hard. The point is that any fighter and even the greatest get hit, get taken down, finished etc.....it's how much more good moments they have that counts. And Andy, Jones, GSP and floyd certainly have a lot more good than bad.

And secondly, no MW was not weak from 2006 to 2013. It was actually a division that had some of the best MWs ever. Guys like Vitor, Rich, Sonnen, Hendo, Marquart and Okami are certainly on the level of top MWs today. Luke Rockhold who's one of the posters boys for this supposed better MW division got his lights put out by Bisping and Vitor.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Really? Isreal gets hit a lot more than prime Anderson did,

What? Because of his one fight against Gastelum?

 

[ThunderStruck]

That prime juiced version of Sonnen would handle Gastelum from bell to bell. He still got finished by Silve twice.

Anderson fought Weidman in his late 30s after 15+ years of pro career. Anyways, a lesser version of Weidman finished Gastelum with no much effort.
Lutter? Lol

Weidman finished Silva much more easily than he finished Gastelum... twice.

 

[JKS]

View attachment 567489
Ok I respect your opinion but I’ll end with this. Chael only landed 3 takedowns and one of those was in the 5th, so 2 of the first 4 rounds he didn’t land a takedown. How did he win all 4 of those rounds? At least 2 of those rounds were entirely on the feet, right?

Fair question! Just to clear it up, Chael landed a takedown in round 1, 2 and 3. It was 4 and 5 he didn't land takedowns in. Even in the rounds he didn't land takedowns (4 and 5) he still spent most of the rounds on top. In round 4 Andy came out aggressively and landed multiple strikes standing, Chael was backed up and shot for a takedown and Andy sprawled and end up on top of Chael. He was on top but then Chael reversed the position around the 4 min mark and spent the rest of the round on top of Andy. And in round 5 they were exchanging strikes early in the round and Andy threw a punch at the same time as Chael and lost his footing in which Chael just landed on top of him. Remainder of the round Chael was on top till the sub.

So even in the rounds he didn't land a takedown, he spent 4.5 minuets on top in both. Round 2 Chael caught Andys kick within 10 seconds into the round and spent the whole round on top. Round 3 he took any down within 30 seconds and spent the whole round on top. Chael was basically on top 4.5 minuets of every round. There was 30 seconds at best standing.