Prime RJJ vs. Marciano

Even if I were to accept your assertion (which I don't), you leave out nutrition. These guys aren't putting the same things in their bodies that marciano did. They have the benefit of supplements and advanced knowledge of biochemistry at their disposal. Also, if you look through all of the weight classes in boxing, the guys are bigger now, stronger now, and faster now. Training methods and nutritional science have lead to this.

You know what? I'm the asshole here...i shit in everyone's sandbox. No one wants to hear about reality when they're playing "time travel champ". my bad.

Again, I'm asking why you don't accept this? What modern training techniques do you see used by many of the top boxers?

Let's see what the top p4p boxer of today, Floyd Mayweather's uber-modern diet looks like.

Floyd Mayweather Interview - AskMen.com

AM : Tell us about your diet regimen when you're training. Is it true that you still keep it real with the candy, cookies and pizza even when you
 
Again, I'm asking why you don't accept this? What modern training techniques do you see used by many of the top boxers?

Let's see what the top p4p boxer of today, Floyd Mayweather's uber-modern diet looks like.

Floyd Mayweather Interview - AskMen.com



Hmm, used to eat pizza, now tries to eat less candy with a little pop on the side. Very advanced.

I find it funny that you think a quote from a guy talking about how he cheats on his diet somehow proves your point that boxers ignore all of the conditioning tools at their disposal.
 
Roy was a much more technical fighter, and much more athletic.

marciano makes it to the 8 th on heart. But it would look like mayweather vs gatti.


Its funny, the same people who say "the current heavyweights in the ufc, are better than the ones from 2 years ago" are the same people who won't acknowledge the technical and athletic superiority of the boxers of recent times to the old boxers of yesteryear.

Klitschko would absolutely destroy muhammed ali. Ali wouldn't even be a heavyweight. he was 6-215. A small cruiserweight. Marciano was a sloppy puncher, who didn't even have a challenge in the days he fought. He was a hard arm puncher. He would get tooled by a lot of the current champs.


I was with you up til here. Ali would've schooled Klit. Klit was violated by Corrie Sanders, and you have him beating Ali? Vitaly would fare no better.
 
lol...ok...yeah, older fighters were smaller, slower, less conditioned on the average. it really wouldn't be fair. especially when you're talking about a guy like marciano taking on a complete product of modern day conditioning like Roy Jones Jr.

ripped fuel > a pot of joe any day

you know they used to fight 15 rounders right?

I was with you up til here. Ali would've schooled Klit. Klit was violated by Corrie Sanders, and you have him beating Ali? Vitaly would fare no better.

to be fair.. everyone loses. imo i think the klits brothers would of gave old time boxers hell.
 
The Roy Jones that has 1 fight and 1 win over John Ruiz as a heavyweight?

That Roy Jones?

I'm referring to Jones of 168-175. That's why I said they were 10-17lbs apart at their peaks. HW Roy was heavier than Marciano.
 
you know they used to fight 15 rounders right?



to be fair.. everyone loses. imo i think the klits brothers would of gave old time boxers hell.

of course i do. what does that have to do with advances in sport science? Do you feel that today's fighters couldn't train for and compete in 15 round bouts?
 
I find it funny that you think a quote from a guy talking about how he cheats on his diet somehow proves your point that boxers ignore all of the conditioning tools at their disposal.

It's obvious he doesn't have a strict diet, and he monitors it himself. How much knowledge of biochemistry do you think the Mayweather's have?

And I'm still waiting for some advanced training methods many boxers are using.
 
It's obvious he doesn't have a strict diet, and he monitors it himself. How much knowledge of biochemistry do you think the Mayweather's have?

And I'm still waiting for some advanced training methods many boxers are using.

I guess that I'm going to have to keep repeating myself. Today's athlete is bigger, stronger and faster. As evidenced that his is a thread pitting a modern day lightheavyweight against one of the great hw champions. This is because today's athlete has better equipment, greater training theories, access to supplements and nutritional advice.

Show me some examples of guys training with 50s era equipment, living off of 50s-era nutrition and training in the same exact way that 50s era fighters trained.
 
you know they used to fight 15 rounders right?



to be fair.. everyone loses. imo i think the klits brothers would of gave old time boxers hell.

Honestly, can you see prime Ali (Wlad was in his prime) getting absolutely violated like that. I mean seriously, no clue at all as to what to do with a straight left-hand lead. You can't forget the heart he showed in his first encounter w/ Brewster. Add in his KO loss to Puritty, and you have him, at or before his prime, being embarrassed and KO'd by three absolute journeyman at best heavies. And he would give Ali hell. Ali's "bad" losses were at the end of his career to a future all-time great (holmes) and to a future title holder (berbick).
 
I guess that I'm going to have to keep repeating myself. Today's athlete is bigger, stronger and faster. As evidenced that his is a thread pitting a modern day lightheavyweight against one of the great hw champions. This is because today's athlete has better equipment, greater training theories, access to supplements and nutritional advice.

Show me some examples of guys training with 50s era equipment, living off of 50s-era nutrition and training in the same exact way that 50s era fighters trained.

Err, you want me to find examples of guys hitting heavybags? Sparring? Doing situps? Running? Eating lean meats? Perhaps jumping rope? Seems a bit pointless.

I'm asking for you to point out the modern training methods used by many of the top boxers, which to this point you have failed to do.
 
It's not fair how much shit Klitschko's bros get from the so called boxing fans;
Klitschko's are not only massive beasts, they're also very technical and heavy punchers, with fast hands, great stamina, great defense, decent speed and great footwork.
Now compare that to Foreman.....a champion of 70's

Klitschko's could have been champions in any era, including the "golden era", their combination of size, power and technique is unmatched.
 
Err, you want me to find examples of guys hitting heavybags? Sparring? Doing situps? Running? Eating lean meats? Perhaps jumping rope? Seems a bit pointless.

I'm asking for you to point out the modern training methods used by many of the top boxers, which to this point you haven't bothered to do.


fixed it for ya...it's self evident that training techniques and equipment are better now than they were then. it's pointless to argue back and forth. go ahead and have fun with the conversation at hand...who wins a modern day lightheavyweight or a hw champ from the 50s.
 
I've always thought that these sorts of arguments are impossible and pointless. Are we giving Marciano the benefit of 1990s level nutrition and conditioning techniques? Guys from different eras had different tools in their toolboxes, unfair to compare.

that may be true if we talk about other sports, but not boxing.
2000's training methods are pretty similar to 50's and even earlier on.
 
fixed it for ya...it's self evident that training techniques and equipment are better now than they were then. it's pointless to argue back and forth. go ahead and have fun with the conversation at hand...who wins a modern day lightheavyweight or a hw champ from the 50s.

You went back and forth with me for multiple posts when you could have ended the arguement with one post showing modern training techniques used by many of the top boxers today. You didn't.
 
of course i do. what does that have to do with advances in sport science? Do you feel that today's fighters couldn't train for and compete in 15 round bouts?

What about bareknuckle brawls lasting 70+ rounds? Yet fighters today are gassed in 12. You really think the fighters of today would have the determination to fight for that many rounds? They have been pussified, they would probably be able to train for a 15 rounder but they would complain about the rounds and would come in out of shape.
 
Err, you want me to find examples of guys hitting heavybags? Sparring? Doing situps? Running? Eating lean meats? Perhaps jumping rope? Seems a bit pointless.

I'm asking for you to point out the modern training methods used by many of the top boxers, which to this point you have failed to do.

Plyometrics for explosiveness, supplements, multi-vitamins, heart rate monitors, etc. The other stuff is still done because it works, but to say there have been no advances in training technique and technology is no accurate.
 
Plyometrics for explosiveness, supplements, multi-vitamins, heart rate monitors, etc. The other stuff is still done because it works, but to say there have been no advances in training technique and technology is no accurate.

I'm aware that there has been advances in physical training and how it has effected many sports, but the majority of boxing champions aren't doing any of that.
 
I'm aware that there has been advances in physical training and how it has effected many sports, but the majority of boxing champions aren't doing any of that.

Based on what? Do you have that kind of access to training camps of boxing champions around the world? Or are you basing it on the fact that you don't see it on 24/7 or in interviews? Because boxers like to keep that shit a secret, and show the public the traditional workouts on shows like 24/7 or open workouts.
 
Based on what? Do you have that kind of access to training camps of boxing champions around the world? Or are you basing it on the fact that you don't see it on 24/7 or in interviews? Because boxers like to keep that shit a secret, and show the public the traditional workouts on shows like 24/7 or open workouts.

Based on the words of many of the top trainers. Roger and Floyd Mayweather Sr., Emmanuel Steward, Nacho Beristain, Nazim Richardson all praise the old school training methods and old school fighters. Roach does too to a large extent but still has Alex Ariza work with his top fighters. Roach still acknoledges his best fighter, Manny Pacquiao, couldn't beat Roberto Duran who is as old school as they come.
 
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i like how you conveniently left out the fact that the klitschko's weigh around 250 pounds.

As we have seen in both boxing and mma, the heavyweights are getting massive. Weight makes a huge difference. The klitschkos are very technically sound, fight conservatively and still hit incredibly hard. Emanuel stewart said wlad knock out people with their headgear on. Most boxers don't fight the klitschkos, they run from them.

I didn't mean to leave it out. I forgot boxrec puts the weights of the fighters in the fight results rather than in the bio section. I thought I'd have to go to youtube and look up their fights to get an actual number.

Ernie Terrell fought Muhammad Ali at 212.5 pounds (Ali was 212 and 3/4pounds).

Wlad's heaviest was 246
Vitali's was 252

Wlad seems to try to come around 244, whereas Vitali seems to try to come in at around 247.

Ali seemed to try to match his opponent's weights, or come in a little lighter or heavier depending on their style. His heaviest opponent was Buster Mathis who came in at 256. For this fight, Ali came in at 227.

I don't doubt that weight matters (it's why we have weight classes) and I don't doubt that the brothers would use their size to their advantage. I think Wlad is one of the All-time greats, but I think he loses to Ali. As you said, styles make fights, and I think Wlad's calculating style loses to Ali's quick-thinking and his antics.
 
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