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Prime Joe Louis vs Prime Muhammad Ali (Cassius Clay)

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by CodeBreaker, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. CodeBreaker What belt?

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    Who would you bet your money on? Who wins?
     
  2. defjaam Hazelnut Cake Warrior

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    Damn what a fight... The only dream match that could come remotely close is Pirog vs. Pulev.
     
  3. revoltub Gold Card

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    Cus said that Ali would eventually "plant his feet" and Louis would catch him. Ive heard this "as soon as ali plants his feet!" theory perpetuated by bert sugar as well. I think it was during the ESPN Classic specials with Brian Kenny.

    Ive always felt this assessment was wrong. I think even a young ali who goes stationary for a few seconds is still faster than joe. Plus louis struggled with movers like Ali. I think the fight looks like the billy conn fight except that Ali wouldn't give it away at the end and might finish Louis himself.
     
  4. SandaKicker Green Belt

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    Prime for prime I think Ali would dominate behind the jab before stopping him in the 7th or 8th round. Louis had the edge in power but the speed difference was massive in Ali's favour, I think Louis would have problems getting into the fight.

    There are versions of Ali I think Louis could beat though.
     
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  5. kenji goh Blue Belt

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    Ali.
    Even if Louis managed to catch him with a good shot, Ali had a goat level chin.
     
  6. StopDucking Ronda Rousey hater

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    This is extremely disrespectful to Ali.

    It's like asking if Rocky Marciano would beat George Foreman.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  7. svmVR2097 Brown Belt

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    I feel prime Louis vs Prime Ali, Ali would be too much and perhaps even too big.

    Louis beat Simon and Baer sure but Baer has only like 3 wins vs non bums who weighed more than 200lbs, Simon didn’t have power and only 2 wins against 200lbs heavyweights(that weren’t bums). And both were never champ

    Prime Ali was like 212, I think even a later Ali that fought Foreman and Frazier the 2nd and 3rd times beats Louis.

    Was just a different era
     
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  8. mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    Ali was too mobile, had too good of a chin, too much stamina at his best. I keep mentioning his stamina as perhaps his greatest strength and no one ever gets it, a man that throws twice as many punches as the other man has an advantage.
     
  9. Hagler Man of wealth and taste Platinum Member

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    Ali doesn't take Louis for granted, he sticks and moves his way to a clear UD.
     
  10. SandisLL Brown Belt

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    this. if Ali from 60 ies.
     
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  11. mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    It's ironic but one of Ali's best lines, "if you dream you beat me you better wake up and apologize" probably came from a scene as described by Billy Conn. Ali walks up to Joe who was visiting with Billy, mentions that he had a dream that he beat Louis, Louis responded, "Listen Boy! If you even dreamt it, you should apologize". I've heard the story told a couple different ways but the sentiment was the same. Ali would use the line against Jimmy Ellis and others.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  12. ssx Brown Belt

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    As much as I’d want Louis to win, Clay/Ali would beat him.
     
  13. Virtually Identical Orange Belt

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    If Louis went into the fight calling him Clay like you are, it’d more of an utter destruction than it already would’ve been lol
     
  14. Misery Signals Orange Belt

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    I assumed he meant this fantasy match could be before he changed his name.
     
  15. BluntTrauma21 Broner Brodie / Pulev Posse

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    @mozfonky thrives in these Ali old school types of threads. I just read most of the time when he's on. Shout out to Moz and that crazy knowledge you have of Ali and the ole days. I love your shit, man!
     
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  16. mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    Thank you
     
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  17. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Joe Louis was a lot faster than people seem to be giving him credit for, especially if you are strictly talking about hand-speed. Also, let us recall that Louis cut weight in the Conn fight, unnecessarily, in order to make it seem more even and acceptable in the eyes of the public. He came in at around 200 for Billy Conn, which was totally unnecessary and may have made him a bit more sluggish.

    The truth is that it wouldn't be an easy night for either man; both would have to bring their A-game and stay on it for the full 12 or 15 rounds. Ali never faced anyone with Joe Louis's ring intelligence, timing, accuracy and power. Louis seized on opportunities ruthlessly and suddenly and his best punches were extremely short, straight and fast. Though he stalked his opponents, he was a counter-puncher, who basically steered people into attacking him and giving him the opportunity to capitalize. Would he be able to trap Ali? Hard to say. Ali was also a brilliant boxer. But I do think he showed that he could become frustrated and emotional during fights, which can't be said of Louis during his title reign. Both men have clear routes to victory--Ali would have to stick and move without getting caught, Louis would have to catch Ali coming in.

    Whoever won or lost this fight, it would probably look a lot easier to spectators than it actually was for the victor to pull off. It would be the sort of fight with no margin for error.
     
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  18. Fluffernutter Gold Belt

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    Eddie Futch said Louis would win.
     
  19. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    So did Cus D'Amato and I believe, Teddy Atlas IIRC. Tyson thought Ali would win but said Louis was his favorite fighter. George Foreman said that in his list of top heavyweights, Louis was number one and whoever filled out the rest of the spots, they were a ways below him.
     
  20. Fluffernutter Gold Belt

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    People often forget that Louis cut weight for his fight with Conn. And it was a same-day weigh in.

    Louis didn't want it to look like a big guy beating up a little guy. His weight cut was not for speed, but for optics.
     
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